Hello from Texas

Come here to introduce yourself, who you are, what you do, and tell us your
experience with our automotive products.
Post Reply
User avatar
HiramTheGreat
Newbie
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:14 pm

Hello from Texas

Post by HiramTheGreat » Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:43 pm

My name is Hiram Gutierrez, I've been in the Transmission repair industry for almost 29 years. I just purchased a 4425 with an NVH starter kit. Just received it a day ago. I can't use it yet since I don't have the unlock key for the NVH. Anyways, the reason for the purchase is that with all the new technologies on modern cars, I've been getting a lot of vehicles in with ''Torque Converter Shudder'' complaints. Sometimes I see broken mounts as the issue specially with vehicles with ''DOD'' (displacement on demand). And some slight misfires mistaken for ''TCC shudders''. And then some inconclusive vibrations that are also mistaken for a ''TCC shudder''. I just hope that this was the right decision to make. As for scopes I own 2 Snap On and an Autel, which are useless for shudders and vibrations. Not sure how many of you guys work on Transmissions here and if you guys have experience with the NVH and Transmission related issues. To me is going to be a learning curve hoping to get these ''problem child'' out the door and on the road where they belong.

Steve Smith
Pico Staff Member
Pico Staff Member
Posts: 708
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:22 am

Re: Hello from Texas

Post by Steve Smith » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:41 pm

Hello from Pico UK and thank you for the post.

This is an interesting topic and one I have been faced with numerous times when trying to separate TC Shudders from Misfire.

You can now be assured you have the hardware and software fast enough to capture these events to enable conclusive analysis

Rest assured you can also count on our support and our forum members too.

Could you confirm you now have your NVH License key?

Could you take a look here for a list of NVH Topics that will get you started

This link will help with engine vibration orders (especially misfire/combustion anomalies)

I hope this helps in the interim, take care.....Steve

User avatar
HiramTheGreat
Newbie
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:14 pm

Re: Hello from Texas

Post by HiramTheGreat » Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:03 am

THANKS STEVE, YES I DO HAVE THE SOFTWARE LICENCE. WHAT I CAME ACCROSS IS THAT THE SOFTWARE DOES NOT RECORD LONG ENOUGH EVENTS. I DID A 2 MILE TEST DRIVE ON A KNOWN ''NO TCC SHUDDER'' VEHICLE AND WHEN TRYING TO REVEW THE DATA ONLY A FEW SECONDS...MAYBE LIKE 10... WERE RECORDED. AM I DOING SOMETHING WRONG ON THE SETTINGS? OR DO I NEED TO KEEP IN MIND A CERTIAN TIME FRAME TO RECORD?
THE MAIN VEHICLE WITH A ''SUPPOSEVLY TCC SHUDDER'' IS A 2013 FORD EXPLORER 2WD. IT CAME PREDIAGNOSED FOR THAT ISSUE. (FROM AN AUTOMOTIVE SHOP), I TEST DROVE IT AND I BELIEVE IS AN ENGINE RELATED ISSUE. (I'M A TRANSMISSION REPAIR SHOP, BY THE WAY). BUT I COULN'T CONVINCE HIM FOR THAT. SO I PULLED THE TRANSMISSION OUT TO FIND NO EVIDENCE OF THE SHUDDER.USUALLY YOU'LL FIND TCC CLUTCH MATERIAL. I'M INSTALLING A NEW TORQUE CONVERTER AND A REPAIR KIT FOR THE VALVE BODY WHICH TAKES CARE OF SHUDDERS JUST IN CASE. MY QUESTION IS, HOW CAN I RECORD AND PLAYBACK THE EVENTS I'M LOOKING FOR? DO I NEED TO KEEP MY FINGER READY ON THE RECORD BUTTON TO CLICK IT ONCE I FEEL THE SHUDDER COMING IN? OR IS THERE A SETTING I NEED TO CHANGE? BY THE WAY, I'M NEW AT NVH. JUST BOUGHT THE TOOL. ANY HELP AND TIPS ARE WELCOMED. THANKS AGAIN STEVE.

Steve Smith
Pico Staff Member
Pico Staff Member
Posts: 708
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:22 am

Re: Hello from Texas

Post by Steve Smith » Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:27 am

Hello again and thank you for the feedback.

Our NVH software will record up-to 500 seconds of data if required, but remember this will increase your file size as a result. By default the signal history is 50 seconds long and the only data saved is the data captured within the visible 50 seconds.The video below will help set up the signal history length
INCREASE SIGNAL HISTORY WITH ADVANCED OPTIONS.mp4
Signal History
(3.66 MiB) Downloaded 8 times
Below we have 100 seconds of signal history captured and saved, the initial 42 seconds are lost.
SIGNAL HISTORY SAVED.png
Signal History
You can recall any section of the recorded 100 seconds by pressing the "Play" button or dragging the highlighter to the area of interest within the signal history.
SIGNAL HISTORY SAVED.png
Signal History
During recording you can use the space bar to pause your capture and press again to commence recording without any loss of previous data. This is ideal when forced to stop during a road test due to traffic conditions etc.

I hope this helps and please feedback when you can for any clarification, take care......Steve

User avatar
HiramTheGreat
Newbie
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:14 pm

Re: Hello from Texas

Post by HiramTheGreat » Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:42 pm

Hello again Steve,
Thanks for the info, I will start using the software more often to get familiar with it. 500 seconds or 8 1/2 minutes will be absolutely perfect for what I need it to do.
At the ATRA (Transmission Rebuilders Association) seminar this year I was talking to Steve Garret about these TCC shudders that we get frequently. I don't know if you know Steve Garret but he said to me that TCC shudders occur in the 20hz to 28hz. And he is the reason I decided to buy this tool. Is there any truth to that? And if it is, is it possible to add that frequency as a default maybe on a future update? I tried to add a CV for it but it has to be a fixed frequency so I set it to 24hz. Again, I'm new to this tool but it looks very promising. Also I noticed that the gear changer in the transmission is not accurate, it has a very long delay. The vehicles I've tested so far have the same transmission, 6F55. One on a 2013 Ford Explorer 2WD and a 2014 Police Interceptor AWD. Both 6 speed automatics. The Explorer is the vehicle I'm most concerned since that is the one with the ''Pre-Diagnosed TCC shudder'' which at this point I'm not convinced, and the other I own it, Which I will be doing some more tests with it. The Explorer I have it ready for installation. One of the techs will install it Monday. I've addressed everything that has to do with TCC operation so we'll see how it goes.
Thank you Steve Smith, I will keep you updated on what I find and maybe upload some screen shots.
Talk to you soon.
Hiram.

Steve Smith
Pico Staff Member
Pico Staff Member
Posts: 708
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:22 am

Re: Hello from Texas

Post by Steve Smith » Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:52 pm

Hello Hiram and sorry for the late feedback.
So much going on as ever and not enough time to “dig in”

The frequency for torque convertor shudders at 20 to 28 Hz is very interesting but I have no literature or captures to support these values. I am intrigued and would love to get in touch with Steve Garret if possible?

Such information is gold and would be invaluable to myself and NVH users all over the globe

My initial thoughts about the torque convertor (Pump/Impellor) would be “engine speed”, as E1 (fundamental engine speed /frequency) would apply to the torque convertor to given its relationship to the crankshaft.

The components within the torque convertor however (Stator and Turbine) would be at differing frequencies. (Assuming no “lock up” with the Turbine)

My thoughts would therefore focus on, at what engine speed does the characteristic offending 20-28 Hz shudder occur?

Is this more load related than engine speed?

Does the 20-28 Hz indicate a specific condition or component failure within the torque convertor.

Being able to relate the two (Engine frequency to offending frequency) would be awesome

I have added a procedure on how to include a fixed frequency marker at 24 Hz and the following link will help too here.
CUSTOM VIBRATION.png
Custom Vibration
You could also park a frequency ruler on screen at 24 Hz to provide a "marker" during road tests

Your gear change should be almost instantaneous with NVH and so could we confirm our transmission and diff ratios are correct and that our road speed and engine speeds recorded with NVH tally with the actual engine and road speeds of the vehicle? (This could introduce an error/delay)

I hope this helps take care…….Steve

Post Reply