Transporter 2.0TDI CR Outs Temp sensitive

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Transporter 2.0TDI CR Outs Temp sensitive

Postby BB-4motion » Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:46 am

Dear Pico-Users,

Since many garages I visited can't figure out my problem I'm turning to this specialist forum in hope you can help me out.

My casus is about my VW Transporter (2010) 2.0 TDI CR with engine code CAAC. The car was bought 1,5 year ago with 56K and has now 95K km.


The problem is that my car seems to be very outside temperature sensitive. The engine always starts very easy but with higher outside temperatures starts to run rough and noisy and eventually with real high outside temps even starts to misfire.

In the temperature range of 5 degree celcius to 9 degrees celcius the car operates really smooth and has lots of power.
But when the temperatures get above 10 degrees the car starts to run rougher and rougher. With temps above 17 degrees the car starts to make erratic injector noises when you ask torque from the engine by pushing the gas paddle. The engine then seems to have no torque at all under 2000 RPM and starts to shudder when you drive the car under 2100 rpm in 5th gear.

With temperatures above 25 degrees the injectors start to make really a lot of noise and eventually the engine starts to misfire with bad knocking sounds. I'm not really sure if what I call injector sound is not misfiring that starts as ticking sound and eventually with real high outside temperatures becomes knocking.

What has been replaced the last 1,5 year :

-EGR-valve was broken by a short circuit because of condense caused by exhaust gasses.
-2 MAF sensors (just to eliminate)
-MAP sensor (just to eliminate)
-Rail Pressure sensor (just to eliminate)
-4 injectors (were out of range) strange with such a young engine
-Dual mass flywheel was not broken but bad

What has been checked the last 1,5 year :

-Timing has been checked two times

Multiple garages have had my car on the VAGCOM computer but the car doesn't show any DTC Fault codes!
Eventually I bought my own VAGCOM cable to put more energy in my problem. I have checked all temperatures of all sensors with cold engine and they are then all the same as the outside temperature. When the engine warms up I don't get any strange readings.

-Outside temperature normal
-Fuel temperature normal
-Air intake temperature normal
-Cooling liquid before and after radiator normal
-Air temps after turbo and after intercooler normal

I have checked all fuel pressures and VCDS doesn't give any strange readings between the relative and absolute pressures.

The only thing at this moment I can think of is a bad rail fuel pressure valve or a bad IMV on the fuel pump but I can't see the correlation between outside temperature and a faulty fuel pressure valve or bad IMV. I read more than thousand topics in numerous forums but can't find anybody with exact the same problems I have!

I really hope one of you can help me out with a brilliant Idee or that somebody has encountered this problem before!!

Kind regards Bram
The Netherlands
Attachments
28126549_10213336782125744_1173854744_o.jpg
Last edited by BB-4motion on Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Transporter 2.0TDI CR Outs Temp sensitive

Postby KimAndersen » Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:24 pm

Hi Bram

That's a tough challenge you are facing. Let me start by saying that I've have no solution to your problem - whatsoever.

My first question will be - do you intend to diagnose this problem yourself ?

My second question is - what diagnostic tools do you have availble besides the VCDS software ?

The VCDS software is one of the best tools to diagnose VAG cars, but one should remember that the data values your are looking at the VCDS software are not live data as opposed to the Picoscope where your are measuring at the sensor itself.

So VCDS software is a good tool, but you dont get the details as in a Picoscope.

I´ve some theorys, but a theory alone does not solve a problem alone - the theory has to be physical tested on the car to get some diagnostic direction.

This is not much help right now. :wink:

Regards
Kim
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Re: Transporter 2.0TDI CR Outs Temp sensitive

Postby Technician » Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:27 pm

Hi Bram,

Any chance of an "auto-scan"
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Re: Transporter 2.0TDI CR Outs Temp sensitive

Postby BB-4motion » Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:09 pm

It's possible for me to make a vcds scan of my car.
But Let me know what channels you want to see under what conditions.
Only thing that is not possible is to do this with temps above 17 degrees, because it's wintertime here and I was not planning to drive to spain at this moment. :?

Kim if you have also any suggestions in which direction I could take a look please Let me know. I can post live data from Vcds.
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Re: Transporter 2.0TDI CR Outs Temp sensitive

Postby Technician » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:06 pm

Hi, if you connect VCDS to your data port and complete an auto scan then VCDS will search all modules fitted and display all data available, then we can look through it and see if anything stands out!
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Re: Transporter 2.0TDI CR Outs Temp sensitive

Postby liviu2004 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:26 am

Bram, if you need pico diagnostics, I have my scope here, close by Rotterdam.
I have 0 knowledge of VW. Any way to fool temp sensor to see if this is control issue or just a real mechanical issue?
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Re: Transporter 2.0TDI CR Outs Temp sensitive

Postby BB-4motion » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:24 pm

I made an Auto Scan and two different .csv logs today. One CSV is only temperatures started with cold engine and drove till it was warmed up.The second .csv is with some pressures air and fuel and injection deviation which some deviaton between cilinder two and four when you ask torque from the engine.





Monday,19,February,2018,15:02:58:04550
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 15.7.0.2
Data version: 20150820
http://www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WV1ZZZ7HZAH215532 License Plate:
Mileage: 94750km-58874mi Repair Order:


Chassis Type: 7H (6N0)
Scan: 01 03 08 09 10 15 17 19 22 25 56 69 0B

VIN: WV1ZZZ7HZAH215532 Mileage: 94750km-58874miles

01-Engine -- Status: OK 0000
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
10-Park/Steer Assist -- Status: OK 0000
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
22-AWD -- Status: OK 0000
25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
56-Radio -- Status: Malfunction 0010
69-Trailer -- Status: OK 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine (J623-CAAC) Labels: 03L-906-022-CAA.clb
Part No SW: 03L 906 022 CJ HW: 03L 907 309 K
Component: R4 2,0L EDC X31 9529
Revision: 26X31--- Serial number: 00000000000000
Coding: 01194012233600080000
Shop #: WSC 92521 052 00000
ASAM Dataset: EV_ECM20TDI01103L906022CJ 002011
ROD: EV_ECM20TDI01103L906022CJ.rod
VCID: 6FF4C3B7E79DF5FAF63A1D1-803A

No fault code found.
Readiness: 0 0 0 0 0

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes (-----) Labels: 7E0-907-37x-MK25AXT.clb
Part No SW: 7E0 907 379 E HW: 7E0 907 379 E
Component: ESP MK25A XT H43 0103
Revision: 00H43001
Coding: 508724AD99A50A9A24A79974696010
Shop #: WSC 02736 790 49152
VCID: 347E0CDBCE3B96A2CB68EA5-8060

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC (J301) Labels: 7E5-907-047.clb
Part No SW: 7E5 907 047 T HW: 7E5 907 047 T
Component: Climatic-T5 H10 0101
Revision: 00004001
Coding: 0000000002
Shop #: WSC 02737 790 50316
ASAM Dataset: EV_ClimaticT5 A01002
ROD: EV_ClimaT5Basis_VN75.rod
VCID: 4096500B8A833A825FE0165-8014

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. (J519) Labels: 7H0-937-08x-09.clb
Part No SW: 7H0 937 087 B HW: 7H0 937 087 B
Component: BCM T5GP H+4 H46 0207
Revision: BO046001 Serial number: 0156 291090103
Coding: 22A0293A0E212002012006007FAB8ED40080430F60842040300000000000
Shop #: WSC 02759 790 12345
VCID: 337C0FC7CB35919AD262E11-8066

Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1K0 955 559 AH Labels: 1K0-955-559-AG.CLB
Component: RLS 201109 05 54 0402
Coding: 03302E

Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 7E0 959 801 HW: 7E0 959 801 Labels: 7E0-959-801.CLB
Component: J386__TSG_FT 002 0301
Coding: 000000

Subsystem 3 - Part No SW: 7E0 959 802 HW: 7E0 959 802 Labels: 7E0-959-802.CLB
Component: J387__TSG_BT 002 0305
Coding: 000000

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 10: Park/Steer Assist (J446) Labels: 7E0-919-475.clb
Part No SW: 7E0 919 475 HW: 7E0 919 475
Component: PARKHILFE 4K H10 0008
Revision: -------- Serial number: 33030929901833
Coding: 100002
Shop #: WSC 02736 790 50316
ASAM Dataset: EV_VW75XParkAssis4K A01003
ROD: EV_VW75XParkAssis4K_VN75.rod
VCID: 6FF4C3B7E79DF5FAF63A1D1-803A

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags (J234) Labels: 5K0-959-655.clb
Part No SW: 7E0 959 655 A HW: 7E0 959 655 A
Component: VW10Airbag00N H05 0011
Revision: -------- Serial number: 003E5000EB7B
Coding: 00000000000000000000000000000000304E
Shop #: WSC 02736 790 50316
ASAM Dataset: EV_AirbaVW10BPAVN750 A01001
ROD: EV_AirbaVW10BPAVN750_SE12.rod
VCID: 347E0CDBCE3B9622CB68EA5-8060

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments (J285) Labels: 5K0-920-xxx-17.clb
Part No SW: 7E0 920 860 A HW: 7E0 920 860 A
Component: KOMBI H15 0111
Serial number: 00000000000000
Coding: 160800
Shop #: WSC 02736 790 50316
ASAM Dataset: EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09 A04041
ROD: EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09_SE36.rod
VCID: 265AE69308E7F4B2451C70D-8072

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway (J533) Labels: 6N0-909-901-6R.clb
Part No SW: 6N0 909 901 HW: 7H0 937 087 B
Component: GW-K-CAN TP20 0207
Coding: 042200
Shop #: WSC 02759 790 12345
VCID: 70F6C0CBFAA3EA82EF00065-8024

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 22: AWD Labels: 0AY-907-554-V1.clb
Part No SW: 09N 907 554 A HW: 09N 907 554 A
Component: Haldex 4Motion 6007
Coding: 0000007
Shop #: WSC 02736 790 00000
VCID: 367A36D3D84788B2F57C80D-8062

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer (J334) Labels: 5K0-920-xxx-25.clb
Part No SW: 7E0 920 860 A HW: 7E0 920 860 A
Component: IMMO H15 0111
Serial number:
ASAM Dataset: EV_Immo_UDS_VDD_RM09 A03004
ROD: EV_Immo_UDS_VDD_RM09_SE25.rod
VCID: 265AE69308E7F4B2451C70D-8072

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio
Cannot be reached

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 69: Trailer (J345) Labels: 1K0-907-383-MY8.lbl
Part No SW: 1K0 907 383 F HW: 1K0 907 383 F
Component: ConWysTrailer H07 0100
Revision: 3A001001 Serial number: 00000132425721
Coding: 0100000100000000
Shop #: WSC 00007 223 174336
VCID: 307600CB3A23AA82AF80C65-8064

No fault code found.

End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 02:22)--------------------------
Attachments
LOG-01-711-761-771-1581-1991-2461-3521-5351-5481.CSV
(61.67 KiB) Downloaded 120 times
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Re: Transporter 2.0TDI CR Outs Temp sensitive

Postby BB-4motion » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:29 pm

This is the file withe pressures and deviation.
Attachments
LOGPICO.CSV
Pressure/deviation/torque
(20.2 KiB) Downloaded 111 times
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Re: Transporter 2.0TDI CR Outs Temp sensitive

Postby KimAndersen » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:18 pm

Hi Bram

It takes some time to interpretat those VCDS log file you have taken.I´ve seen both log files and particular the last PICO Log file are interesting to study in details. There are a couple things that dont look right and here I´m talking about actual value versus specified values in the higher region.

Transporter_log.jpg
Transporter 03L906022CJ R4 2.0L EDC

Here I´ve loaded the Pico_Log file into VCDSVIEW program and seen at the two cursors which I´ve placed one in the upper region of the data value field and the other in the lower region is it clear that there is a mismatch between actual and specified in the air mass field - charge air mass field and also fuel pressure data values are sometimes showing the wrong values.

The first advise I would give were to measure the air mass sensor output voltage with a oscilloscope or make a new VCDS log file where you log the raw data value from the air mass sensor in millivolt.

One last question.

Do you know if the ECU are modified or not ?

Regards
Kim
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Re: Transporter 2.0TDI CR Outs Temp sensitive

Postby BB-4motion » Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:14 pm

Hi Kim! First I would like to mention that it's fantastic that you are willing to put some time and afford in my problem!!

I indeed forgot to mention that the car is tuned by JD-engineering in the Netherlands. They say he is one of the best VAG-tuners in the Netherlands. The Tuning has been done in hope that this would solve my problems. Actually the car has more torque so it runsa bit better in the low regions of RPM.
But the actual problem of temperature sensitivity never disappeared. They also ran the car on the Dyno and it's very clear that the car developes it's power after 2000 rpm but it reaches the standards of the tuner with full throttle.

I checked more dynoruns from other tuners with similar engines on internet and I can see there that the torque is rising much earlier. I will try to upload the diagram later!

If I can make a specific run with specified measuring blocks for you please let me know! I will make a run of raw data and post it also!!

What do you think of the injector deviation between cilinder 2 and 4 when I ask torque from the car?
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