Pico amp clamp

Ask any questions relating to the PicoScope hardware or kit contents here.
If you have any questions prior to purchasing the kit post them here.

Pico amp clamp

Postby Technician » Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:29 pm

Pico Current Clamp 60A AC/DC) with BNC and 3m Screened Lead PP264

This question is not specific to Pico's current clamp, but to these types of clamps in general. I am to understand that when testing wide band oxygen sensors that clipping an amps clamp round the cable from the sensor will not be an accurate enough reading for testing purposes, is this true?

Information I have read advises that reading pid data is more accurate, I don't know!!!

I already have amps clamps Fluke but the clamps are large, much larger than the PP264 and also wondered if that would have an effect on the readings!!
Technician
TwoWaves
TwoWaves
 
Posts: 262
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:32 pm

Re: Pico amp clamp

Postby liviu2004 » Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:51 pm

I doubt that an oxygen sensor can output sufficient current for an clamp amp. Or am I wrong?
liviu2004
TwoWaves
TwoWaves
 
Posts: 60
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2016 10:23 am
Location: Netherlands

Re: Pico amp clamp

Postby PicoKev » Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:55 am

T,

As with all things in this game what one person tells you may or may not be correct, as a professional in this industry it is up to each and every one of us to invest time, money and effort to keep up with the ever changing technology that we are required to deal with on a daily basis.

The wideband AFR is a case in point. The technology is not that complex but it is amazing how much complete Bravo Sierra I have seen and heard expounded on the subject.

There are a number of reputable training providers and a lot of resource material available if you look for it and are suitably selective in the material you trust.

https://www.picoauto.com/library/traini ... gen-sensor is not an unreasonable place to start.

As for amp clamps the TA018 is a well-respected and perfectly capable piece of equipment with physical advantages for tight access. The TA234 has a larger jaw profile which has advantages in some situations as well as a very good performance profile.

You can of course make a simple inductive current magnifying loop (10X) is usually enough and the TA234 then stretches it’s legs even further into the low amp range.

As far as I am aware the PP264 you are referring to is long obsolete (Please provide the link you found it on as I am intrigued!)

However if you want to do milliamps properly then this is my weapon of choice.
http://www.chauvin-arnoux.com/en/produit/k2.html

As with all thing it is a case of “horses for courses” and everyone does things differently!

As for live data the pids can often be limited or simply not there, (even in esi on Bosch systems!) Also you have to factor in the limitations of refresh rate on your scan tool. Most of which are stone age in terms of performance. A Picoscope will always run rings around them! Plus you have to remember that you are only looking at “Back Door Data”.
Kev.
PicoKev
TwoWaves
TwoWaves
 
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:16 am

Re: Pico amp clamp

Postby Martyn » Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:57 am

The Pico TA018 current clamp can either be purchased as an accessory within one of our popular diagnostic kits or individually under the packing code PP264.
Martyn
Technical Support Manager
Martyn
Pico Staff Member
Pico Staff Member
 
Posts: 229
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:43 am
Location: Cambridgeshire

Re: Pico amp clamp

Postby PicoKev » Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:15 am

Martyn wrote:
The Pico TA018 current clamp can either be purchased as an accessory within one of our popular diagnostic kits or individually under the packing code PP264.


I am duly educated :D thanks Martyn. I did not realise that you were using two part numbers for the same component. I only know it as the TA018.
PicoKev
TwoWaves
TwoWaves
 
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:16 am

Re: Pico amp clamp

Postby EAAD » Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:39 am

liviu2004 wrote:I doubt that an oxygen sensor can output sufficient current for an clamp amp. Or am I wrong?



I have an AEMC K110 current probe which works very well on AF wideband sensors.
EAAD
TwoWaves
TwoWaves
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:15 pm

Re: Pico amp clamp

Postby FioranoCars » Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:42 pm

I have the AEMC K110 as well, and looking at the pictures and spec of the Chauvin Arnoux K2 would say that it is just a rebadged version of the K110. Even the adjustment screw for Zero is identical !!

In terms of responsiveness, the Steve Smith article mentioned before https://www.picoauto.com/library/training/testing-the-bosch-lsu-4-2-broadband-oxygen-sensor, while seemingly a little fiddly to setup (as is the K110/K2 BTW), will give superiour results if you measure things correctly, with no risk of clamp wander, flat batteries ... plus it's not needing a £500+ bit of kit. Response frequency on any clamp will fall below that of the scopes native voltage sampling, so you have to be careful about sample rates.

While the jaws are pretty small, you may need to use a breakout lead for some sensors due to their and the harness outer sheath (assuming you're not going to start cutting into it) while back pinning is almost 100% accessible, and some of these new connectors would be a manual breakout lead, all adding to the melé ... and if you are road testing then you have an darn expensive bit of kit in a hot and high vibration environment ... just some stuff to consider!

Don't get me wrong, the K110/K2 has it's place, especially if measuring 4-20ma sensors, but even with one in my arsenal I'd look to find alternative methods to achieve the goal before rolling it out!

Just my 2p
Best, Richard
Last edited by FioranoCars on Sat Aug 05, 2017 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
FioranoCars
TwoWaves
TwoWaves
 
Posts: 377
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:26 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Pico amp clamp

Postby EAAD » Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:40 pm

AEMC Instruments is a is a subsidiary of Chauvin Arnoux Inc. page 2 , statement of compliance, http://www.chauvin-arnoux.us/pdfs_aemc/ ... 110_en.pdf

Mine is badged an AEMC K110 and housed in a Chauvin Arnoux case. The attached PDF is a duplicate of my paper manual.
EAAD
TwoWaves
TwoWaves
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:15 pm

Re: Pico amp clamp

Postby STC » Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:34 pm

Steve smiths case study works a treat. An easier, quicker & less detailed method is to ac couple the signal wire and you can see rich or lean which is enough most of the time.
If you really need to know how rich or how lean then you can graph the data on a good scan tool and that will paint a reasonable picture, of course that is slow serial data not as raw or as accurate as the Pico will show

Kim Anderson has done some superb research on this here post31931.html?hilit=broadband sensor#p31931
User avatar
STC
Banned
 
Posts: 790
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:10 am

Re: Pico amp clamp

Postby Technician » Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:16 pm

PicoKev wrote:T,

As with all things in this game what one person tells you may or may not be correct, as a professional in this industry it is up to each and every one of us to invest time, money and effort to keep up with the ever changing technology that we are required to deal with on a daily basis.

The wideband AFR is a case in point. The technology is not that complex but it is amazing how much complete Bravo Sierra I have seen and heard expounded on the subject.

There are a number of reputable training providers and a lot of resource material available if you look for it and are suitably selective in the material you trust.

https://www.picoauto.com/library/traini ... gen-sensor is not an unreasonable place to start.

As for amp clamps the TA018 is a well-respected and perfectly capable piece of equipment with physical advantages for tight access. The TA234 has a larger jaw profile which has advantages in some situations as well as a very good performance profile.

You can of course make a simple inductive current magnifying loop (10X) is usually enough and the TA234 then stretches it’s legs even further into the low amp range.

As far as I am aware the PP264 you are referring to is long obsolete (Please provide the link you found it on as I am intrigued!)

However if you want to do milliamps properly then this is my weapon of choice.
http://www.chauvin-arnoux.com/en/produit/k2.html

As with all thing it is a case of “horses for courses” and everyone does things differently!

As for live data the pids can often be limited or simply not there, (even in esi on Bosch systems!) Also you have to factor in the limitations of refresh rate on your scan tool. Most of which are stone age in terms of performance. A Picoscope will always run rings around them! Plus you have to remember that you are only looking at “Back Door Data”.
Kev.


Thanks Kev, I'm going to have a look into the chauvin-arnoux.com website and have a good read up.
Technician
TwoWaves
TwoWaves
 
Posts: 262
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:32 pm

Next

Return to Automotive kit hardware

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests