Hesistant Peugeot

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Hesistant Peugeot

Postby Fat Freddy » Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:51 am

2003 Peugeot 307 2.0L
EW10J4 (RFN) Marreli 6LP1
130,000 Miles
Scanned with Dec SS. - No codes.

I was to look at this after a coil and plugs (Bosch now in it) had been replaced for a miss fire on one cylinder that was ID'd during his code read and clear. The mechanic had kept it over night and noticed in the morning it ran very poorly and stalling until it was coaxed into life and was fine after that. He had done a compression test and said they were very good.

I let it cool for several hours. Once started, it ran rough, stalled and back fired up the inlet manifold for a few minutes before running OK as the throttle was applied. As if lean during warm up and acceleration.
Live data was showing correct air and coolant temps. Map looked good -98Kpa KOEO, which is almost bang on for 234M above sea level.

I then had it confirmed this problem had been present for sometime before the miss fire fault.

The following morning, once cold again, I decided to check the brand of plug fitted (apparently NGK's can cause hell with French cars). At this time while the coil pack was out I would take the opportunity to look at these high compressions with the WPS

20140111-0001.psdata
(5.01 MiB) Downloaded 180 times


They seem high to me so I confirmed with a mechanical gauge, this gave 215psi, with the throttle closed.

AD mentioned poor cold start performance as being related to Carbon deposits in intake ports but removal of the injectors showed the ports looked clear.

Further reading seemed to point to a lifter fault with some 2.0L Peugeot engine's. Is this the model and is there any way to confirm the fault? How does the lifter fail?

FF
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Re: Hesistant Peugeot

Postby Fat Freddy » Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:58 am

Meant to add. The above data file shows the point of stall as the throttle is applied. When cold.

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Re: Hesistant Peugeot

Postby KimAndersen » Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:10 pm

Hi FF

Is there any components replaced on this engine and if this is the case you may need to reset the adaptation values in the ecu.

BTW are this engine equipped with VVT (Valve Variable Timing) ?

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Re: Hesistant Peugeot

Postby Robski » Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:20 pm

WPS in which cylinder ?

Coil current probe where ?
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Re: Hesistant Peugeot

Postby Fat Freddy » Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:17 am

BTW are this engine equipped with VVT (Valve Variable Timing)


Not sure, trying to find my way round this lump.

WPS in which cylinder ?


cyl 1

Coil current probe where ?


It would have been the 2/3 coil wire.

I can't get a grip on this one. I should of mentioned the initial crank when cold is longer than it should be. A touch on the accelerator when cold kills it dead.

I don't think it's AD bulletin although the description is very close. The ports appear very clean.

I fairly sure this lifter problem is not it. I can't see anything unusual in the waveform.
Although again the symptoms match.

Here's the ignition once warm. Most files are to large to upload.

Ignition.psdata
(3.26 MiB) Downloaded 132 times
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Re: Hesistant Peugeot

Postby Fat Freddy » Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:40 am

TBH I don't think this will be solved. The customer has lived with this problem, never complained about it and taking age and miles into account, I can't see any money being spent on it. And nothing is nice to look at.

The EGR pintle is like a sausage in a sock. Blanked off in all but the first capture.
Here's a very bad O2 capture. No audible miss was heard during this capture. Dirty injectors?

Screenshot (9).png
O2 and injectors.
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Re: Hesistant Peugeot

Postby arjen » Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:17 am

Not shure if this is usefull, but I have seen something like this on another car.

I have a capture of an o2 sensor signal that looks like this, with the fast and short peaks in a slow signal. The problem of that car was too small valve clearance.
I post the capture asap.
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Re: Hesistant Peugeot

Postby Fat Freddy » Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:59 pm

That would be interesting to see.

Although I think I'll be out of time tomorrow.

My thinking was/is fuel. At it's coldest it try's to die - die's as the throttle is applied. This then becomes a back fire in the inlet manifold. Ending in a hesitation but the spark line tails look fairly tall to my untrained eye
warmed up III.psdata
(4.3 MiB) Downloaded 138 times

. Also O2 always switch's lean when throttle is given. Fuel pressure steady at 350kpa. Temp good. MAP looks good and reading correctly.
What steers me away from a valve problem is the WPS on 1 also the reasonably steady mechanical vacuum gauge.
But I have possibly missed something.

Defiantly post that file up.
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Re: Hesistant Peugeot

Postby Robski » Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:36 pm

last capture, what's the current from ?
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Re: Hesistant Peugeot

Postby arjen » Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:21 pm

This is the capture I was talking about.
I was suprised that a signal like this whas caused by incorrect valve clearance.
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87-TN-GN Meriva lambda controle.psdata
Bad lambda signal caused by too small valve clearance
(851.07 KiB) Downloaded 156 times
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