Cam timing, maybe ?

Ask for and share advice on using the PicoScope kit to fix vehicles here.
Liteace
TwoWaves
TwoWaves
Posts: 198
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:25 pm

Cam timing, maybe ?

Post by Liteace » Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:33 pm

Got here a 06 Trannt connect 1.8 TDCI, its a little under powered and chucks out more than the norm black smoke, I pulled the vac off the EGR and it was a little, just a little better, I then pulled the timing belt cover off and found a new belt and tensioner there and also 2 white marks on the pump and cam pulley, I thought someone has changed this belt without the propper locking tools, I reached for the Pico, blue trace cranking current, red trace no 1 injector, the injector timing looks a little late to me, what do you guy's think ?

Thanks

connect injector1.psdata
(675.63 KiB) Downloaded 334 times
Last edited by Liteace on Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DONT SHOOT YOURSELF IN THE FOOT

Darren Cotton
TwoWaves
TwoWaves
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:53 pm

Re: Cam timing, maybe ?

Post by Darren Cotton » Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:00 pm

Liteace wrote: I reached for the Pico, blue trace cranking current, red trace no 1 injector, the injector timing looks a little late to me, what do you guy's think ?
connect injector1.psdata
Liteace, can you expand on this technique? How can this be a reliable method for timing analysis?

Darren

Liteace
TwoWaves
TwoWaves
Posts: 198
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:25 pm

Re: Cam timing, maybe ?

Post by Liteace » Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:05 pm

Darren Cotton wrote:
Liteace wrote: I reached for the Pico, blue trace cranking current, red trace no 1 injector, the injector timing looks a little late to me, what do you guy's think ?
connect injector1.psdata
Liteace, can you expand on this technique? How can this be a reliable method for timing analysis?

Darren
We I assume that it should inject the fuel on or a deg or so before TDC and not after ?
DONT SHOOT YOURSELF IN THE FOOT

Darren Cotton
TwoWaves
TwoWaves
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:53 pm

Re: Cam timing, maybe ?

Post by Darren Cotton » Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:44 pm

So what about pilot injection, post injection and so on?

I don't see how this method can help you with timing analysis :?



Darren

Wally
OneWave
OneWave
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:58 pm
Location: North Yorkshire Uk

Re: Cam timing, maybe ?

Post by Wally » Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:03 pm

Liteace - I assume you are thinking along the lines of "It's just the same as using a cam and crank capture to confirm correct cam timing, eg if you have a known good trace you then know if your cam timing is right or wrong".

But - what controls the point of injection on a TDCI?

Wally

Jonathan Leonard
Newbie
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:27 pm

Re: Cam timing, maybe ?

Post by Jonathan Leonard » Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:19 am

Can you get specified injection timing while cranking with live data and use that figure to work out if its right or wrong with a cmp and ckp waveform?

User avatar
Robski
Advanced User
Advanced User
Posts: 597
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 6:36 pm
Location: Yorkshire

Re: Cam timing, maybe ?

Post by Robski » Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:18 pm

I think i would start by logging desired & actual boost, or smoke it.

Any mist of oil under the bonnet ?

On another note it's better to see injector current for diagnosis rather than the voltage.

Question :- did you capture that with the filters on or did you apply filters afterwards ?

Liteace
TwoWaves
TwoWaves
Posts: 198
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:25 pm

Re: Cam timing, maybe ?

Post by Liteace » Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:24 am

Filters applied afterwards, no oil mist anywhere, I checked all charge hoses and they're all good, the reason I suspect timing is out is down to the white markes on cam and pump pulleys, if the correct setting tool was used when the belt was changed why would you need to mark up the pulleys, its got to be stripped down as its got a strange rubbing \ scraping noise from under the pump pulley area:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMGaYFYH ... e=youtu.be

I'll pull the timing chain cover off and have a look in there
DONT SHOOT YOURSELF IN THE FOOT

Darren Cotton
TwoWaves
TwoWaves
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:53 pm

Re: Cam timing, maybe ?

Post by Darren Cotton » Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:42 am

Its not easy picking out abnormal noises from that video, but i think if you suspect the timing then its going to easier just to check it manually.

If your noise is from behind the pump then maybe its got chain issue......

I take it there are no fault codes?

Darren

Liteace
TwoWaves
TwoWaves
Posts: 198
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:25 pm

Re: Cam timing, maybe ?

Post by Liteace » Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:23 am

If you have another listen you can really hear it at 35, 100 & 221 secs, I had a look in AD and it does say use:

Timing chain front cover alignment tool - Ford No. 303-652 (21-230)

I dont know what this tool is, never seen it buy maybe the chain has been replaced as well and they didnt use it so the chain cover maybe rubbing on somehting in there, as I say i'll pull it apart and have a look in there

Thanks
DONT SHOOT YOURSELF IN THE FOOT

Post Reply