2004 Rover 75 2L Diesel no start

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RYM6746
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2004 Rover 75 2L Diesel no start

Post by RYM6746 »

Hi guys I have a Rover 75 diesel no start No fault codes. It appears to have injector pulse at TDC on every 4th compression hump along with good rail pressure (see file attached). It also doesn't have a blocked exhaust or stuck open EGR valve (valve removed at mo prooving both). It also appears to have good diesel (sample taken doesn't catch fire when lit) and smells exactly like diesel. Engine also runs on easystart and still doesn't burst into life when you stop spraying. What am I missing guys??? Thanks in advance for your help
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Rover_75_2004_Diesel_rail press crank and inj no start.psdata
(3.62 MiB) Downloaded 329 times

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RYM6746
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Re: 2004 Rover 75 2L Diesel no start

Post by RYM6746 »

Ok so looking at the wave forms below it would appear the injector isn't being fired at TDC on the correct cylinder . I cant find a known good cam vs crank in the library for a Rover 75 (does anyone have one?) also the in cylinder waveform doesnt show the valve timing to be WAY OFF (remember the engine runs on easy start?). I pulled the glow plug from cylinder 1 loosing compression on cylinder1 expecting to see my injector current to fire on the missing compression hump IT DID NOT! so i then attach the WPS 500. Can anyone see a problem in the waveforms or think of a reason why the ECU would fire the injector at TDC on the incorrect cylinder. Both injector current and in cylinder pressure waveform are on cylinder 1 ?????
Attachments
Rover_75_2004_Diesel_rail press crank and inj no start.psdata
(3.62 MiB) Downloaded 308 times
Rover_75_2004_Diesel_Cam vs Crank no start inj not being fired at TDC on correct cyl.psdata
(3.83 MiB) Downloaded 301 times
Rover_75_2004_Diesel_cam vs crank in cyl and inj no startinj firing at wrong time.psdata
(912.21 KiB) Downloaded 298 times

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vasek
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Re: 2004 Rover 75 2L Diesel no start

Post by vasek »

Hi.
It seems that there was an error in the installation of the chain.
The injection timing is broken by 360 degrees.
If you look at the location of the injectors connectors,you can see that it is easy to recross the connector of the injector 1 to the injector 4.
So on - the connector of the injector 2 to the injector 3.
In order to recross the connector of the injector 4 to the injector 1, and the connector of the injector 3 to the injector 2,you need to extend two wires each.
If the engine starts confidently and works, it remains to correct the position of the chain.
Attachments
ENGINE M47R.PNG
ENGINE M47R+.png
ENGINE M47R NG.PNG

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RYM6746
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Re: 2004 Rover 75 2L Diesel no start

Post by RYM6746 »

Hi thanks for the help. The chain hasn't been touched the car/customer is well known to us and assures us he was driving it then a sudden lack of power all the way home he then turned it off and it wouldn't restart. I also have a suspicion of the valve timing but I don't have a known good cam vs crank does anyone have one?
And i found it difficult to believe it jumped exactly 360 degrees out? How can it even be 360 degrees out as this means that the crank is back in exactly the same place? I tried your suggestion with jumping wires to injectors it still doesn't run? Is there any non intrusive tests you can think of to proove this theory as I am really trying to avoid stripping down the engine as it involves pulling all 4 injectors. Thanks again for your help

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Re: 2004 Rover 75 2L Diesel no start

Post by Iver »

Scope current across all 4 Injectors and Fuel Pressure.

Next we can look at things like RPM, Sync, MAF, Tempratures .... ..... .....

Immobiliser good ?

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RYM6746
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Re: 2004 Rover 75 2L Diesel no start

Post by RYM6746 »

Immobiliser is good must be to fire the injectors and supply rail pressure. I could really do with a known good cam vs crank for that engine but with no success so far

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Re: 2004 Rover 75 2L Diesel no start

Post by RYM6746 »

got a known good cam vs crank from a freelander (see waveform below) they are not identical but close enough in my opinion. What I did notice is the injector current on the faulty Rover 75 is not right. The injector is only drawing a maximum of 5 A and being fired at the wrong time on faulty vehicle and close to 17 A on known good. Guess ill have to check powers and grounds to ECU can anyone else think of any reason why the injectors on the faulty vehicle would behave like this? Thanks for your help :shock:
Attachments
Land Rover_Freelander_2005_Diesel_Cam vs crankwith inj GOOD.psdata
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vasek
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Re: 2004 Rover 75 2L Diesel no start

Post by vasek »

Taking into account the details of the case in question.
If the standard injector control scheme is implemented in this example, then there are two series of pulses per injector.
The first series is the main one ,with a rated current.
This series follows in the first cylinder after the TDC timing pulse (camshaft signal).
The second series - is idle, where the current is not sufficient to control the injector.
This series follows through 360 degrees for R4(four in-line).
In Your case, for some reason, there is a series of idle pulses, but no main control.
Here is an example of how the injector driver works on R4 & R5:
Attachments
HYUNDAI 2.0 CRDI D4EA.png
MB W463 2.7 CDI 612.965 SYNC 5ms.png

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RYM6746
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Re: 2004 Rover 75 2L Diesel no start

Post by RYM6746 »

I'll check powers and grounds at ECU when I get a chance. Any ideas what could cause this?? as cam vs crank would appear to be good. Thankyou

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Re: 2004 Rover 75 2L Diesel no start

Post by RYM6746 »

After nothing but time, Patience and shear pain we got BBA (who couldn't test it) to suck the software from the ECU and put it into another ECU and it still didn't start with exactly the same fault. With literally nothing else left to do we reloaded the same software version in to it using the T4 and with 0 confidence, I turned the key and it burst into life. It was A SOFTWARE INDUCED MIRACLE.

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