Unable to connect with car

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VASTech
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Unable to connect with car

Post by VASTech »

Hi everyone. Please help!
I just got my NVH picoscope kit (super toolkit! BTW), and try to connect on VW Golf MK4 2001 ALH engine.
So far i`m not able to get tacho signal (RPM) from kline using ELM327 interface. I test interface, with android app ELM identifier, everything is "green" till version 1.4 (no error at all). Not able to connect with the car and trace.xml throw error :"The elm device has the error: 10. Exceprion of type 'ak' was thrown.
Anyone can help?
Attach trace.xml.log... Sorry for file size!
Attachments
trace.xml
(6.98 MiB) Downloaded 43 times

ben.martins
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Re: Unable to connect with car

Post by ben.martins »

Hi VASTech,

Congratulations on the new tool!

I can see in the trace that the NVH software is trying to communicate with MaxiFlash device. I'm imaging this is installed on the same PC?

If you are just using the ELM327 interface then in the setup screen.
NVH RPM selection.png
This should hopefully prevent the software from trying J2534 which is where the error might be occurring. The other issue is the ELM327 device isn't a genuine ELM device and a clone.

Another option for you is to use the MaxiFlash as a passthru device. I have used a few different VCI's that allow PassThru and they do work with our NVH software so it may well be worth giving it a go especially as the NVH software recognizes and is looking for it.

Let me know how you get on.

Kind regards

Ben

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VASTech
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Re: Unable to connect with car

Post by VASTech »

Hello Ben, Thank`s for reply!
As you have seen I have try to connect with a MaxiFlash interface asewll - No success! NVH software connects with the interface even via bluetooth, but... not connects with the car. I mention again, I`m trying to connect with a 2001 VW MK4 ALH engine. Software connects with interface, but then disconnects and try to connect again and so on. No success with that interface although wanted to use that interface because it is a stable one.
As for the ELM interface, i thing is OK aswell, post in attach a test witch check ELM`s protocols. Problem is that I`m not able to connect with that car. I use Android APP Torque and is connecting to car and I was able to read PIDs form ECU including RPM, APP, Water Temp, etc. I think if that app can do that Pico NVH must able to do that asewll. I think the problem is not the interfaces, but the NVH software in case of VW cars.
Any suggestion is welcome! Thank You!
Attachments
ELM327 Test.png

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VASTech
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Re: Unable to connect with car

Post by VASTech »

BTW What is the meaning of this:
"The elm device has the error: 10. The response from the device was"
and
"category="Exception" level="Info">Error in port write/read:System.TimeoutException: The write timed out.
at System.IO.Ports.SerialStream.Write(Byte[] array, Int32 offset, Int32 count, Int32 timeout)
at System.IO.Ports.SerialPort.Write(String text)
at al.a(String , Int32 )"
and

"category="Exception" level="Info">Exception of type 'ak' was thrown.:ak: Exception of type 'ak' was thrown.
at al.a()
at al.b(Byte[] , Int32 )
at al.a(String , Int32 )
at al.PidRequest(aF request)
at z.a(D , J )
at z.a(D )
at z.b(D )
at H.TestVehicleConnection()
at F.a(u& )"

It`s something wrong with COM ports?

ben.martins
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Re: Unable to connect with car

Post by ben.martins »

Hi VASTech,

Thank you for the screenshot as this does clear something up. The version number you have for your ELM device is a clone. ELM electronics never made a chip v1.5 as you can see here below.
ELM v1.5.png
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELM327

This sadly means I can't offer any guarantees that it will work with our NVH software. I do have a Bluetooth ELM327 device with a genuine chip and it does work, although Bluetooth does have a habit of dropping connection.

Whilst my knowledge of error messages is limited, a quick search has shown me that the error code 10 relates to a hardware issue. This could be fixed with getting the right driver for the device but being Bluetooth, that can be tricky!

The other option is to look at why you're MaxiFlash device isn't connecting. Considering this is designed as a PassThru device I find it odd that it won't connect to our software as I know the Bosch KTS does when configured for PassThru.

When you were trying the MaxiFlash was this over USB or Bluetooth? If it's the latter then please try connecting via USB and ensure the MaxiFlash is configured for PassThru via USB. I'm afraid I haven't used the MaxiFlash so I'm not aware of how to achieve this.

Hope some of this helps.

Kind regards

Ben

Steve Smith
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Re: Unable to connect with car

Post by Steve Smith »

Hello and thank you for the posts

We have asked the software team to look at the trace file you attached (thank you) please see below:

Regarding this issue. The best thing to do is eliminate windows and it's drivers being a problem.

The best way to debug this is to communicate to the vehicle via the PC using putty (https://the.earth.li/~sgtatham/putty/la ... /putty.exe).

1) Download putty
2) Open device manager and look at the COM port to communicate on
3) Fill in the appropriate serial baud rate (found on the label of the ELM device) and other settings in the putty options
4) You might also have to enable CRLF and echo options in putty
5) Open the serial connection in putty
6) If the connection opens successfully type "ATZ" in putty and hit enter - you should see the device name
7) Type "0100" (pids supported query) - you should see some communication back from the device


Some addition information VASTech re Error codes etc:

These are the stack traces debugged below. 'ak' is our obfuscated code and it's a ElmFatalErrorException which wraps that error code 10.

I also found out this line in the trace file means that there was nothing returned by the device (return string is empty) and we interpret that to mean there was no data (this is where the error code 10 comes from):
"The elm device has the error: 10. The response from the device was: "


=========================Exception 1 ==========================
System.TimeoutException @ Pico.Automotive.OBD.ELM327.ElmDevice.TryOpen(String, Int32)

Error in port write/read:System.TimeoutException: The write timed out.
at System.IO.Ports.SerialStream.Write(Byte[] array, Int32 offset, Int32 count, Int32 timeout)
at System.IO.Ports.SerialPort.Write(String text)
at Pico.Automotive.OBD.ELM327.ElmDevice.TryOpen(String, Int32)
===============================================================

=========================Exception 2 ==========================
System.TimeoutException @ Pico.Automotive.OBD.ELM327.ElmDevice.TryOpen(String, Int32)

Error in port write/read:System.TimeoutException: The write timed out.
at System.IO.Ports.SerialStream.Write(Byte[] array, Int32 offset, Int32 count, Int32 timeout)
at System.IO.Ports.SerialPort.Write(String text)
at Pico.Automotive.OBD.ELM327.ElmDevice.TryOpen(String, Int32)
===============================================================

=========================Exception 3 ==========================
System.TimeoutException @ Pico.Automotive.OBD.ELM327.ElmDevice.TryOpen(String, Int32)

Error in port write/read:System.TimeoutException: The write timed out.
at System.IO.Ports.SerialStream.Write(Byte[] array, Int32 offset, Int32 count, Int32 timeout)
at System.IO.Ports.SerialPort.Write(String text)
at Pico.Automotive.OBD.ELM327.ElmDevice.TryOpen(String, Int32)
===============================================================

=========================Exception 4 ==========================
ak @ Pico.Common.WeakEvents.WeakMulticastDelege.GetInvocionList()
or Pico.Automotive.OBD.ELM327.ElmDevice.get_DeviceIsOpen()

Error in port write/read:ak: Exception of type 'ak' was thrown.
at Pico.Common.WeakEvents.WeakMulticastDelegate.GetInvocationList()
or Pico.Automotive.OBD.ELM327.ElmDevice.get_DeviceIsOpen()
at Pico.Automotive.OBD.ELM327.ElmDevice.CheckAndFilterResponse(Byte[], Int32)
at Pico.Automotive.OBD.ELM327.ElmDevice.TryOpen(String, Int32)
===============================================================

=========================Exception 5 ==========================
ak @ Pico.Common.WeakEvents.WeakMulticastDelege.GetInvocionList()
or Pico.Automotive.OBD.ELM327.ElmDevice.get_DeviceIsOpen()

Exception of type 'ak' was thrown.:ak: Exception of type 'ak' was thrown.
at Pico.Common.WeakEvents.WeakMulticastDelegate.GetInvocationList()
or Pico.Automotive.OBD.ELM327.ElmDevice.get_DeviceIsOpen()
at Pico.Automotive.OBD.ELM327.ElmDevice.CheckAndFilterResponse(Byte[], Int32)
at Pico.Automotive.OBD.ELM327.ElmDevice.TryOpen(String, Int32)
at Pico.Automotive.OBD.ELM327.ElmDevice.PidRequest(IObdiiPidLowerRequest)
at Pico.Automotive.OBD.PidSupport.RequestSupportedPidInfo(IObdiiDevice, ObdiiPid)
at Pico.Automotive.OBD.PidSupport.CheckSupportForMorePids(IObdiiDevice)
at Pico.Automotive.OBD.PidSupport.TestVehicleConnection(IObdiiDevice)
at Pico.Automotive.OBD.ObdiiDevice.TestVehicleConnection()
at Pico.Automotive.OBD.DiagnosticDeviceDecoder.TakeNextStepInStateMachine(ObdiiCommandList&)


I hope some of this helps VASTech and I hope one day to fully understand the intricacies of error coding etc.

Next option as Ben suggested is we configure the MaxiFlash for J2534 PassThru, select J2534 and deselect ELM at the NVH "Set Up" screen. This will force NVH to search and try J2534 devices installed on the PC

If this fails, save the trace file and we can review the logs

If all else fails with ELM and MaxiFlash we can use Channel D Square Wave/Tach option at the "Set Up" screen with either the crankshaft sensor or an optical pick up. Use 36 or 60 pulses per RPM for a crank sensor input and check the displayed rpm value (within NVH) against your rev/counter or serial data

The following link describes how you will be required to "Calculate Road Speed" and enter the relevant gear/differential ratios whilst also informing the NVH software of your selected gear position whilst road testing viewtopic.php?p=99593#p99593

I hope this helps, take care......Steve

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VASTech
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Re: Unable to connect with car

Post by VASTech »

OK!
Here is what I did!
I bough an interface with original ELM327 in it. 100% of that. No doubt at all! (elmelectronics.com)
Problem is that PicoDiagnostics NVH won`t connect with that aswell. I even change the laptop, no positive result, same thing... I 100% sure now that the problem is in Pico Software.
I try another software ScanMaster ELM, software connects with the car with no problem at all! Read faults read pids, etc.
Attached some pictures and a short video on how the Pico software behaves...
I`m quite curios that anyone from Pico team is able to connect the NVH to a K-line only vehicle and able to obtain RPM signal.
Attachments
elm327_2.2.jpg
2020-08-12 at 21.44.06.mp4
(9.56 MiB) Downloaded 21 times
elmscan.png
elmscan2.png

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VASTech
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Re: Unable to connect with car

Post by VASTech »

Forget to attach trace...
Attachments
trace.xml
(5.32 MiB) Downloaded 20 times

ben.martins
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Re: Unable to connect with car

Post by ben.martins »

Hi VASTech,

Thank you for keeping us updated on this.

With everything you've done so far I see no reason as to why we can't connect. K-Line is supported in the software and should work with a J2534 enabled device. You've proven that the correct data is being delivered through the ELM device which should, in theory, be enough.

We don't have many K-line vehicles to hand here but we are going to try and setup a test to see what is going on. Sorry again that you are experiencing this issue with connectivity but we are looking into it.

As soon as I have something more I'll update this post.

Kind regards

Ben

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PicoKev
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Re: Unable to connect with car

Post by PicoKev »

Ben,

You know where I am!

I am sure in "the collection" we can find a suitable vehicle. :lol:

The kettle is always on and it has it's own mask. :lol: :lol:

Kev.

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