FIXED: Jag X-type Crank no start

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picowight
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Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:45 pm

FIXED: Jag X-type Crank no start

Post by picowight » Sun Oct 27, 2019 4:00 pm

Hi all, enthusiastic amateur here.
I acquired a 06 Jag x-type, manual with the 2L Diesel Duratorq engine in it (same as a MK3 Mondeo) as a PX spares/repairs from a local dealer.
It was running very rough when I saw it, they delivered it to me and though it was running like a tractor coming off the trailer it died very suddenly under the load of driving up a small slope never to start again.
Prior to me getting it all 4 injectors had been replaced (but not re-programmed so I did that), One of the replacements was leaking back and dropping the rail pressure to 80 bar so I replaced that with one of the originals that were left in the car (FP now at 430bar), I also torqued the injectors to spec as they were waaay loose. Also the crank sensor was not actually bolted to the car, the battery had 3v on it....and so on...

Anyway, having fixed the previous "fixes" I cleared the codes and none have come back- but still no start.

Bought myself a Pico 2204a (as an amateur I can't justify 1K plus for the proper kit.. yet..) and read and watched a LOT of training courses over the past few days. The resources on here are great!

Took traces off the fuel pressure sensor, Injector (with 20x attenuator) + Crank, relative compression (V) and Crank + Cam. (attached)

I don't have access to the waveform library but found an image of a supposedly known good 2L Duratorq (first pic), IF it is the same then the crank/cam looks to be 3 crank teeth/18 degs out (mine second pic), could someone take a look please and see if my thinking is correct.

Thanks!
Attachments
Duratorq good timing.png
Jag crank.psdata
(34.21 KiB) Downloaded 59 times
Jag Cam Crank 2.psdata
(580.76 KiB) Downloaded 55 times
Jag Crank inj cyl 1.psdata
(591.1 KiB) Downloaded 58 times
Jag (non start ) Cam Crank 1.png
Jag (non start ) Cam Crank 1.png (6.9 KiB) Viewed 1530 times
Last edited by picowight on Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

picowight
OneWave
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Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:45 pm

Re: Jag X-type Crank no start

Post by picowight » Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:18 am

As a new user I am finding this is very confusing, in the crank+Injector file above I back probed injector 1 with a 20x attenuator.
How come I am seeing the injector pulse set (pilot+main) every 360 degs of rotation?
Thanks!
Attachments
Screenshot from 2019-10-29 09-02-04.png

Liteace
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Re: Jag X-type Crank no start

Post by Liteace » Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:12 pm

picowight wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:18 am
As a new user I am finding this is very confusing, in the crank+Injector file above I back probed injector 1 with a 20x attenuator.
How come I am seeing the injector pulse set (pilot+main) every 360 degs of rotation?
Thanks!
Look at your voltage, Amp clamp it instead of back probing

picowight
OneWave
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Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:45 pm

Re: Jag X-type Crank no start

Post by picowight » Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:42 pm

Thanks Liteace. I would have done, except the amp clamp has not arrived yet but 20x attenuator has, I thought I set the s/w to 20x - but I see what you mean, if it was set correctly to 20x then that should be reading 180v not 9v, so perhaps my injectors are not firing after all.

picowight
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Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:45 pm

Re: Jag X-type Crank no start

Post by picowight » Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:40 pm

Got hold of two known good waveforms for similar (but not identical) Duratorq 2L diesel engines, both put the timing out 18 degs at the crank.
Pulled the front cover off, pinned the crank at the flywheel (50 BTDC cyl 1) and the cam sprockets are within 1deg (can't quite get the locking pins in but very close).

Any ideas please!

EDIT - Also noticed on the back probe of the injector above it says x1.0 at the bottom so with a 20x attenuator I was seeing 180V

liviu2004
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Location: Netherlands

Re: Jag X-type Crank no start

Post by liviu2004 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:25 am

What engine code that is?
Had once on a different brand, fake cam sensor, signal internal delayed. But perfect signal 0 to 5V.

picowight
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Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:45 pm

Re: Jag X-type Crank no start

Post by picowight » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:58 am

Engine code FMBA

picowight
OneWave
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Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:45 pm

Re: Jag X-type Crank no start

Post by picowight » Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:32 pm

Got some time on this, put it all back together, re-scoped and timing is unchanged. Still does not fire on 3 cylinders.

Amp clamped each injector in turn along with the crank signal, all 4 injectors are firing but only cyl 2 is going bang - as evidenced by the frequency increase in the crank signal (and the sound of the engine firing on one cylinder!)

Running into a dead end on this one, all the injectors were replaced prior to me getting it, I leak off tested, and re-replaced one injector, coded them to the car. Timing has been checked and I fixed the tensioner and replaced the chain. Filter, CKP and CKP all replaced (last ones before I got the 'scope or I would not have bothered!). Fuel pressure seems good on the scope, lots of loose stuff tightened. Air filter OK, will run on ether for testing, But still start. No codes either.

A traditional compression test is next I think.

liviu2004
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Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2016 8:23 am
Location: Netherlands

Re: Jag X-type Crank no start

Post by liviu2004 » Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:39 pm

Will it start on spray?

picowight
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Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:45 pm

Re: Jag X-type Crank no start

Post by picowight » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:42 pm

I did test on ether/easy start, it will not start but will run whilst spraying - though sounds terrible - so air flow seems Ok

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