VW 3,2 L V6 CAM/CRK vs OBD-Tool

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VW 3,2 L V6 CAM/CRK vs OBD-Tool

Postby terbo » Tue May 15, 2018 10:51 pm

Hi,

A friend has a 2008 EOS V6 that has P0016 & P0017 Codes related to the
CAM/CRK Correlation,the Timing Chain Set was replaced and adjusted / refitted now
for the third time.The Codes are coming right back after startup.
According to VCDS, the Timing is -11 Degress off....

Can someone explain how to Backup this "amount" with the Waveforms ?
I found a Waveform from a BUB Golf in the Library, the Waveforms differ from another,
but i can´t get it so that i come to the same degress that he gets from VCDS.

Comparing the Waveforms i would say the Timing is "off" and the ECU is right flaging the
Code. The Shop where they did the Chain-Set now the third time says they did all right,
and the ECU is "crazy", the errors can´t be right.

Maybe someone can clear me up....
Chris
Attachments
Volkswagen_Golf R32_2006_Petrol_20180515-0002.psdata
Golf R32 BUB Compare
(2.14 MiB) Downloaded 75 times
Volkswagen_Eos_2008_Petrol_20180515-0001.psdata
EOS BUB Engine Idle
(5.74 MiB) Downloaded 76 times
terbo
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Re: VW 3,2 L V6 CAM/CRK vs OBD-Tool

Postby ben.martins » Wed May 16, 2018 12:30 pm

Hi Terbo,

Not had a chance to properly analyse but one of things that I've noticed is the crankshaft sensor seems to be different. The missing teeth on the vehicle you have the concern with starts low and finishes high, yet the one from the waveform library is the other way around, starting high and finishing low.

Looking at some of the other VW crankshaft sensors on the library despite not being the same engine code, the majority of sensors start high and finish low.

Could you confirm how you have connected to the sensor please?

Other things to check would be the sensor pick up? Is it one of the ones that can be re positioned or even installed incorrectly?

I have seen issues with the crank pick up ring on the flywheel side being incorrectly fitted and causing issues with cam crank fault codes despite the physical timing of the engine being spot on.

Hope this helps to get you started and if anything else jumps out at me I'll let you know.

Kind regards

Ben
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Re: VW 3,2 L V6 CAM/CRK vs OBD-Tool

Postby speck » Thu May 17, 2018 12:47 am

How about do the same test again and put a pressure trans. (WPS) in cyl.1 .Should be easy to work out
with that info. Hope that helps.
speck
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Re: VW 3,2 L V6 CAM/CRK vs OBD-Tool

Postby ronw38 » Thu May 17, 2018 10:32 am

Your crank pattern does not show the usual increase and decrease in voltage associated with power and compression strokes [does it idle smoothly] . Looking at the missing teeth reference signal you can see a two teeth difference between the good and yours plus an alignment difference between the inlet and exhaust , good vs yours . This could be due to VVT control , or base setting , both engines are idling at near enough the same speed , so would you expect to get similar activity between both ? Without a duty control read out or scan tool data we dont know .Looking at chain replacement online there are no complications in setting the timing with the exception of ensuring the hub phasers are turned to the correct position . Check out the attachments to see if it makes sense
Attachments
Volkswagen_Golf R32_2006_Petrol_20180517-0001.psdata
(2.14 MiB) Downloaded 61 times
Volkswagen_Eos_2008_Petrol_20180517-0002.psdata
(5.74 MiB) Downloaded 49 times
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Re: VW 3,2 L V6 CAM/CRK vs OBD-Tool

Postby terbo » Fri May 18, 2018 1:52 pm

Hi,
Thank you for the Feedback.
Connection was made with Common Earth from one
of the Sensors, and the Positiv Leads going to the Sensors.
The Sensor Pickup (ring) is bolted with a few Screws, that can´t change
in my opion.

If they don´t get it straight the 4.th time , i will do same with the
WPS500 installed.

The VVT Solenóids were not plugged in for the Test, so if there
is no "leakage" it could not be "changed" by the ECU.

I think they are doing something wrong, but 3 times in a row, from
different People - strange.

The car is at the Workshop that did it and they are going over it
for a 4th try, as soon as it comes back, i will see if anything changed,
and let you know or make new Waveforms.
terbo
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Re: VW 3,2 L V6 CAM/CRK vs OBD-Tool

Postby ronw38 » Sat May 19, 2018 6:35 am

Hi Turbo In response to your query re proof of cam crank relativity take a look at the two attachments the diff between the ex cams is 10 deg and the intake cams is 16 deg , your VVTs were unplugged I would assume the good vehicle was plugged in so probably more questions than answers , unless we know the VVTs are inactive at idle ? The sensor plugs are not interchangeable ? Cheers Ron
Attachments
Volkswagen_Eos_2008_Petrol_20180519-0011.psdata
(5.74 MiB) Downloaded 49 times
ronw38
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Re: VW 3,2 L V6 CAM/CRK vs OBD-Tool

Postby ronw38 » Sat May 19, 2018 6:46 am

HI Turbo here is the second attachment I hope
Attachments
Volkswagen_Golf R32_2006_Petrol_20180519-0009.psdata
No 2
(2.14 MiB) Downloaded 59 times
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Re: VW 3,2 L V6 CAM/CRK vs OBD-Tool

Postby terbo » Sat May 19, 2018 8:35 pm

The Sensor Wires can´t be reversed, because of wiring length and position.
The two solenoid-connectors COULD be changed, but then you have to
really stress/strech the Wiring, checked that, but the Wire Colours are
connected to the right solenoids.

I don´t know but i would not expect that the Solenoids are turned on
at idle, but maybe i can look into that when the Car is running.
terbo
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