Misfire Corsa B 1.0 2000

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Re: Misfire Corsa B 1.0 2000

Postby STC » Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:54 am

Fuel Pressure on that should be 3 bar ~45 psi

I was just hoping someone may know if any component in particular is known for giving these types of problems.

Indeed YES. Some very sharp cookies here, arguably the best set of automotive experience and brains on the planet !!! But you do need to feed them with data that oozes quality and quantity !

Back in April I requested some info with a view to understand your issue and offer help, Danny asked for Fault codes .... ???

The MOT tester suggested that the Haas lambda sensor may not be as good as a Bosch even though the scope shows its working OK.

The MOT tester is guessing ???

I would like to see the scope capture, engine at operating temperature from Idle to 2000 rpm > Wide open throttle>Hold for 3 seconds> Overrun > settled at idle. =>1 minute across the screen. Crank Sensor on channel B. MAP or MAF on C, Cam on D

Looking forward to analysing the captures and data requested.
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Re: Misfire Corsa B 1.0 2000

Postby xj40s » Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:08 am

Fault codes.
The only code I have had repeatedly is P0130 the lambda sensor but as I said previously I think this is the symptom, not the cause.
The car once had a crank position sensor code, can't remember for certain but I think P0335. I removed the sensor. The O ring was damaged and there was corrosion on the seat. Cleaned it up and refitted with new o ring. Code has never occurred since.
I will do the check and post scope image as suggested - first I need to make up some more breakout leads. The problem is the fault is intermittent. I have tested. CPS, CamPS, Lambda and MAF in workshop, all fine. The car can even do a round trip of 140 miles (m way and urban) without the fault, then another day it can occur after only 4 miles.
The fault seems more frequent / more severe if I repeat refuelling at the same filling station (BP ultimate).

Reason I asked about fuel pressure and vacuum take off position is because The fuel pressure is 3.1 bar and does not change if the vacuum pipe is removed or the throttle is blipped. With vacuum pipe attached I would expect the fuel pressure to drop to match manifold pressure when throttle blipped. I disconnected the vacuum pipe and applied 22 inch vacuum (0.6 bar). This caused the the fuel pressure to drop to 2.5 bar matching the .6 bar reduction in simulated manifold pressure. With the pressure reduced throttle response from idle to about 3,000 rpm was improved and much more consistent.
My MOT tester is a very experienced mechanic, streets ahead of many main dealer mechanics. His comment on Hass vs bosch is based on a lot of experience. I think if you search the internet there is a lot of information that replacing Bosch MAFs with other makes often results in worse engine running.
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Re: Misfire Corsa B 1.0 2000

Postby STC » Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:49 am

Fault codes.
The only code I have had repeatedly is P0130 the lambda sensor but as I said previously I think this is the symptom, not the cause.

In the absence of a good scope trace back probed at PCM I disagree with the above. P0130 is quite specific with regard to its meaning and setting criteria. I am keen to see the cross counts and crossing times.

I will do the check and post scope image as suggested - first I need to make up some more breakout leads
Just back probe at the connector - PCM Preffered.

Once again STFT - LTFT Please ???

With vacuum pipe attached I would expect the fuel pressure to drop to match manifold pressure when throttle blipped

Fuel pressure will never equal Manifold pressure - (You would be in a lot of trouble if it did) - Forget that! If you have 3 bar FP consistently and the vacuum pipe is connected where it should be - move on !

I have tested. CPS, CamPS, Lambda and MAF in workshop, all fine.

Not sure what you mean by "in workshop" Components removed from vehicle or in the workshop as opposed to out on the road ? And what is your definition of fine ?

The fault seems more frequent / more severe if I repeat refuelling at the same filling station (BP ultimate).

Might be an idea to swerve BP for a while - that could be the cure ???

My MOT tester is a very experienced mechanic, streets ahead of many main dealer mechanics. His comment on Hass vs bosch is based on a lot of experience.


His comment may be based on many good things. It is not based on hard facts and evidence, so it remains just that, a comment and should be treated as such.
What so far has stopped you throwing a Genuine New 02 sensor at it ?
I think if you search the internet there is a lot of information that replacing Bosch MAFs with other makes often results in worse engine running.


I think I could be of more use searching the requested scope captures that you may be posting. (STFT LTFT too)
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Re: Misfire Corsa B 1.0 2000

Postby Technician » Sun Jul 09, 2017 12:26 pm

You don't actually say what engine code this corsa is!

Back in the day, about 12 years ago we had a Tech who worked at Vauxhall who did a lot of investigation work for that fault code on these Corsa's, the Corsa C suffering the same fate. He under warranty on one particular Corsa actually went through a complete strip and dismantle of most of the fuel and exhaust system, changing many parts only to find that after he left the car came back with the same problem.

During the 12 months I was there the car came in at least 3 times for the same problem you described. Sometimes when a fault is present, but unseen by diagnostic equipment, instead of parts darts and pulling everything to pieces to visually check items/areas, sometimes its just plain easier and more effective to check if a software update is required on the age of vehicle you are having problems with.

I had a Vauxhall Corsa C with a very slight misfire occasionally when I worked at Vauxhall, the Corsa was within 12 months old and obviously under warranty, the customer repeatedly complaining to reception about the car jerking when he started to move from rest, he the customer thought it was the clutch!

Many mechanics/Techs call them what you will road tested this car and all of them said there was nothing wrong with it!

After the customer had complained about three months to the dealers, myself having just started at Vauxhall at that time, the reception asked me to road test the car, the customer high rate wanting to be in the car with me at that time, I said no, wait in reception and I'll road test it, having completed a road test I concluded that from rest the engine actually did have a very slight misfire, and it was very slight, slight to the extent that if you depressed the accelerator pedal to harshly during moving off from rest you would not recognize the misfire , it was very slight.

I reported back to the reception that indeed the customer did have a genuine complaint and that a fault was present, the manager didn't like what I pointed out in the customers favour, so Tech 2 was connected and a road test was performed, back at the workshop the Tech 2 was connected to TIS and the evidence checked graphically, each time the car was moved from rest with light throttle the car misfired, and each time the car misfired, the EGR valve activated, at that time I pointed the fault to the EGR valve, the trade back in the day was blanking off these EGR valves like they were going out of fashion, turned out the Trade were wrong and indeed the EGR valve had no fault present, but after contacting Vauxhall Technical directly, they investigated and came back advising that the problem was the "SOFTWARE", and when an update was available they would send it through, but in the meantime they appologised to the customer and said they would in due course contact us to contact him to do the update.

I'm not saying this is the case in your example, but as mentioned, you don't say what the engine code it and it could very well have the twin cam 3 or 4 cylinder engine fitted, and those ECM's on those management systems are subject to software programs installed, which eventually do require updates.
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Re: Misfire Corsa B 1.0 2000

Postby liviu2004 » Sun Jul 09, 2017 12:43 pm

X10XE for corsa b 2000.

The latest software should be 7795:
Update of engine timing software for 3-cylinder X10XE engines in S car as of MY '97.5, as remedy for defective throttle valve adjuster (TVA) in conjunction with fault code 0505. Update of software recommended for all vehicles with faulty TVA.

This car should have the latest software coming out of the factory. There is nothing else to update. Software is not the issue.
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Re: Misfire Corsa B 1.0 2000

Postby Technician » Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:20 pm

Have you thought about testing the maf senor ?
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Re: Misfire Corsa B 1.0 2000

Postby Technician » Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:46 pm

xj40s wrote:Fault codes.
The only code I have had repeatedly is P0130 the lambda sensor but as I said previously I think this is the symptom, not the cause.


What other codes are recorded but not returning immediately when cleared?

P0130 is a intermittent problem, which refers to the 02 sensor bank 1 sensor 1 circuit voltage being low.
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Re: Misfire Corsa B 1.0 2000

Postby STC » Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:36 pm

P0130 is a intermittent problem, which refers to the 02 sensor bank 1 sensor 1 circuit voltage being low.


P0130 is not set purely due to an intermittent fault, neither is it necessarily a circuit low issue - that would entice P0171 - System Lean whereas OP has a slightly rich issue - If we can rely on his MOT tester !

Google definitions can be off, cut and paste at your peril as in this case !

I would be looking to confirm or deny Crossing Times but OP is reluctant to post data requested since April
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Re: Misfire Corsa B 1.0 2000

Postby Technician » Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:50 pm

STC wrote:
P0130 is a intermittent problem, which refers to the 02 sensor bank 1 sensor 1 circuit voltage being low.


P0130 is not set purely due to an intermittent fault, neither is it necessarily a circuit low issue - that would entice P0171 - System Lean whereas OP has a slightly rich issue - If we can rely on his MOT tester !

Google definitions can be off, cut and paste at your peril as in this case !

I would be looking to confirm or deny Crossing Times but OP is reluctant to post data requested since April


Actually the P0130 is what is recorded on a Corsa C at my place at the moment, read by Tech2, which provides the description of a low voltage circuit issue. When I get a minute I'll check TIS and see what the procedure refers to, which I'm sure will be correct for a diagnosis.
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Re: Misfire Corsa B 1.0 2000

Postby STC » Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:05 pm

You don't know what you don't know !

P0130 comes in 3 flavours - OP's Gendan quite likely wont give him the correct variant. Tis Checking Procedure might as well have been written by a child - worse than useless.

Now would be a good time to wait for OP to stop using BP Ultimate for some time and then to come back with requested data and captures from the vehicle. Anything else is just speculation
Last edited by STC on Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:49 am, edited 3 times in total.
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