Toyota Denso Piezo Injector wave forms

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Toyota Denso Piezo Injector wave forms

Postby mdlamber » Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:18 am

Hi Guys
First time on forum. My name is malcolm and i am a Toyota DMT from new zealand.
Does anyone out there have a waveform of a toyota Piezo injector? I have a 2010 Japanese import that has DPF with piezo injectors. Engine is rough idling and datalist shows number one injector out of spec and is running on three cylinders.
Code stored is P0210 injector circuit open number 1. Wiring to and from driver unit and ECM are ok . Suspect injector at this stage , just cautious of driver unit as well.
Supplied is 2 pico files of number 1 injector and number 4 injectors. Current on Channel A is on negative wire of inj 1 and ecm trigger to Driver unit on no 1 as well.
Any help with a reference waveform would be Great :D

Malcolm
Last edited by mdlamber on Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Toyota Denso Piezo Injector wave forms

Postby Dcunning35 » Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:19 am

If you have load tested the wiring and its fine , you could check accross each cylinders piezo stack after all you have 3 good cylinders.
Also check for a short to case ground .
Are these injectors not paired ?'
Ensure pin grips are good too
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Re: Toyota Denso Piezo Injector wave forms

Postby victor2k » Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:00 pm

Hello,
Why you don't use as reference a signal recorded from inj 2 or 3?
Also EG-0130T-1215 give us as a repair procedure the replacement of injectors .The production process of the piezo fuel injectors has been changed.
Regards
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Re: Toyota Denso Piezo Injector wave forms

Postby mdlamber » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:22 am

Hi Guys
All injectors measure 1 mega ohmn each and stable. There is no short to ground using standard multimeter.
The injectors are not paired and terminal pin tension is also good.
I have done another scope of the vehicle while its idling on 3 cylinders tracing No 1 with 3 as reference.
Victor2k is that a toyota service bulletin you are referring too? We do not have such bulletin for that here in NZ.Does it have a part number supersession?

Regards

Malcolm

Injector 1 Suspect Toyota_Hiace_2010_Diesel_20170327-0001.psdata
Inj 1 sample with Inj 3 as ref
(6.29 MiB) Downloaded 65 times


EWD2.JPG
ECM wiring to Driver unit


EWD.JPG
Driver unit to injector wiring
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Re: Toyota Denso Piezo Injector wave forms

Postby victor2k » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:21 pm

mdlamber wrote:Hi Guys
All injectors measure 1 mega ohmn each and stable. There is no short to ground using standard multimeter.
The injectors are not paired and terminal pin tension is also good.
I have done another scope of the vehicle while its idling on 3 cylinders tracing No 1 with 3 as reference.
Victor2k is that a toyota service bulletin you are referring too? We do not have such bulletin for that here in NZ.Does it have a part number supersession?

Regards

Malcolm

Injector 1 Suspect Toyota_Hiace_2010_Diesel_20170327-0001.psdata


EWD2.JPG


EWD.JPG

Hello,
It's a toyota's TSB for european market.
PN is the same only must be produced after april/may 2015(the serial number will tell you the date of production).
Try to swap inj 1 and 3 supply and make a new capture(in your capture inj1 have only 83v ,inj 3 107v at opening!).Something in inj 1 keep the supply lower than in inj 3...
Regards
Last edited by victor2k on Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:09 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Toyota Denso Piezo Injector wave forms

Postby mdlamber » Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:35 pm

Thanks for your reply victor2k
Yeah we do not have access to the european TSB sadly , thanks for that info though that is good knowledge to have. I may contact our distributor for that info if i have time .
That was my next step to swap injectors . It had history codes for 2 and 4 injectors so 3 is the only one left. Customer unfortunately has taken vehicle away which stops me form going further with it. Main purpose of post was to learn about what a good and faulty piezo injector looks like on this model. And yes voltage difference was one concern as well as the current waveform.

Regards

Malcolm :)
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Re: Toyota Denso Piezo Injector wave forms

Postby mdlamber » Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:25 am

Thank you very much Victor2k for the info . Thanks for your help :D
Malcolm
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Re: Toyota Denso Piezo Injector wave forms

Postby RyanH » Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:46 am

The piezo stack in an injector is more of a capacitor than a coil. A resistance test does not give an accurate reading for these injectors. The capacitance of an injector does change over it's lifetime. Siemens and Bosch both compensate for this change by varying the voltage to the injector. I am not sure on Denso as we mainly have their coil injectors in North American. I have not been able to capture this on a vehicle yet but the voltage on these injectors are more important than previous common rail injectors.
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Re: Toyota Denso Piezo Injector wave forms

Postby STC » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:28 am

There is no short to ground using standard multimeter.

A standard Multimeter wont suffice, that measurement needs to be taken with an insulation tester. Bosch FSA 030, Megger MIT420 or similar set at 150 - 200v.

You cannot scope a diesel injector and get a pass or fail on its functionality, for one they are indirectly fired so there will not be any pintle activity evident in the capture. RPM Math Channel riding on a CKP capture will verify the fault code, cylinder id and how it is performing at different engine speeds.
FRP Capture, Dynamic Compressions ... .... .... to narrow it down.

datalist shows number one injector out of spec and is running on three cylinders.

If you refer to Smooth Running Control then you should be looking at that cylinder as a whole.

Other than Leak Off or an Electrical Failure flagged by the Insulation test then swapping injectors is for sure the best way to prove a faulty one if they come out easy enough. If they don't then it is a case of eliminating everything else until it has to be the injector
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