Volvo V50

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dieseljohnny
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Re: Volvo V50

Post by dieseljohnny » Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:52 pm

Just to throw something out their
1.png
But then
2.png
It appears the dips in rail pressure also coincide with the lowest voltage on the inlet metering valve which im relating to cranking condition so just wondering is the injection happening a little too late aswel or compensation for the low rail pressure in an effort to increase cranking speed in hopes the pressure will rise?
3.png
With the unstable rail pressure and the reaction of the metering valve control its supply side problem or excessive high pressure leak off be it through injectors or rail pressure control valve.

Is their the possibility of more than one problem?
It is strange it fires the injectors?
Is their a reset for the replacement of the high pressure pump that hasn't been performed?highly unlikely this is the problem

RS-4
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Re: Volvo V50

Post by RS-4 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:49 pm

Hallo,

a lot of comments and a lot of advice, thank you for everything so far. Today I find and recorded correct signals from another car :
The attachment Fuel metering .psdata is no longer available
The attachment Fuel metering.psdata is no longer available

The attachment Fuel pressure control.psdata is no longer available
The attachment Fuel pressure control.psdata is no longer available

The attachment ckp-cam sensor.psdata is no longer available
The attachment Known good cam -crank.psdata is no longer available

Fuel pressure sensor with disconect metering valve.psdata
Fuel pressure sensor ith disconect meteing valve ( just to see signal)
(591.17 KiB) Downloaded 101 times
Fuel pressure sensor.psdata
Known good
(457.29 KiB) Downloaded 55 times
pressure sensor + injector cil.4.psdata
Fuel pressure sensor (car with problem)
(3.8 MiB) Downloaded 101 times

IMG_20170203_150824005.jpg
I took out a injector to check leaks ... that is ok.
IMG_20170203_154018716.jpg
There is one extra electric pump

I think cam-crank signals and fuel pressure sensor have a lot of noise ...


What to say ... I think I will not sleep tonight ... hehe.

RS-4
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Re: Volvo V50

Post by RS-4 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:04 pm

Fuel metering .psdata
car with problem
(367.91 KiB) Downloaded 103 times
Fuel metering.psdata
Known good
(464.51 KiB) Downloaded 93 times

Fuel pressure control.psdata
Fuel pressure control car with problem
(333.5 KiB) Downloaded 113 times
Fuel pressure control.psdata
Known good fuel pressure control
(478.94 KiB) Downloaded 97 times

ckp-cam sensor.psdata
cam-crank car ith problem
(15.34 MiB) Downloaded 118 times
Known good cam -crank.psdata
I find in Pico base
(253.6 KiB) Downloaded 82 times

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STC
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Re: Volvo V50

Post by STC » Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:23 pm

Will it start on spray !!! ???
Last edited by STC on Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

dieseljohnny
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Re: Volvo V50

Post by dieseljohnny » Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:39 pm

Have you checked both actuators on the high pressure pump?

Siemens system?
Fuel flow control valve and high pressure regulator on pump?

RS-4
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Re: Volvo V50

Post by RS-4 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:58 pm

Hallo,


finally .... I must say that the car came from another service where they replaced a CR pump...

Photos and video explaining all.

Video is too large for this forum that is why I uploaded on youtube.

Thank you all for your help.

IMG_20170208_083838761.jpg
1
IMG_20170208_083848210.jpg
2

https://youtu.be/V0nhcxOTaLo


Regards

steevegt
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Re: Volvo V50

Post by steevegt » Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:07 pm

STC wrote:Here is a known good from that Engine, I don't have one at cranking, only at Idle speed
Ok, so they are really firing...
STC wrote: ...
And that turns my theory on its head :? I think I got too tied up with "They Shouldn't be Firing" and "if they are firing it should start" Hopefully not a completely insane thought process ???
...
Maybe it is only firing the injectors after it gets to the threshold. It looks like it gets to around 1.1 volt in the beginning, before it commands the injectors for the first time.
I guess that after it reaches the threshold, it fires the injectors no matter what the pressure is.
That may explain why they are firing all the time. The reported pressure is very low, and it doesn't start, but that doesn't mean it will not fire the injectors, because it is able to achieve the minimum threshold in the beginning.
Makes sense right?
STC wrote: The car is shouting out at you in the way of a DTC that FRP is low, a fatal fault that will quite likely paralyse it. I am confused as to why you are not chasing that first.
It all points to a low pressure problem, I agree...

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Re: Volvo V50

Post by STC » Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:51 pm

RS 4
Cant remember what that looks like internally now, Is that a broken Camshaft ?
Now we wonder if it needed a new CR HP Pump ??

Well done on finding that. I can see from the pictures that you worked hard to get there.


Steeve
I guess that after it reaches the threshold, it fires the injectors no matter what the pressure is.
That may explain why they are firing all the time. The reported pressure is very low, and it doesn't start, but that doesn't mean it will not fire the injectors, because it is able to achieve the minimum threshold in the beginning.
Makes sense right?
It makes sense because nothing else does. It appears that it looks at Rail Pressure, as soon as the threshold is met it continues to fire injectors regardless of pressure.

Of course that does not explain the P0087 Fault Code. One would guess / assume if it detects low pressure it would stop the injectors ??? Or Not ???

I will be working on a Volvo S40 with the same engine in the next few days. I will manipulate the FRP and Scope the injectors with a view to getting an understanding of its fuelling strategy.

Perhaps Graph Live data for FRP & Injection Quantity / Duration and if it has a PID for No. of DTC's - that would be brilliant to see when it sets.

If you have any tests that you would like me to conduct - Just Shout.


Thanks to RS 4 for bringing this problem to the forum, it is one that, may I say, we all learnt from and has left us thinking further and deeper - A good start to the new year :D :D :D

RS-4
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Re: Volvo V50

Post by RS-4 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:00 pm

Hei,

the ring for runs cr pump rotates around the camshaft ... I welded at three points in the middle (to fasten the ring to cam) and got the pressure and started the engine, nice. I told the customer that needs to be replaced camshaft.


Cheers

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Re: Volvo V50

Post by STC » Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:07 pm

:D :D :D

A first time fix !!! The best kind.

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