Volvo V50

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Re: Volvo V50

Postby dieseljohnny » Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:52 pm

Just to throw something out their
1.png


But then
2.png

It appears the dips in rail pressure also coincide with the lowest voltage on the inlet metering valve which im relating to cranking condition so just wondering is the injection happening a little too late aswel or compensation for the low rail pressure in an effort to increase cranking speed in hopes the pressure will rise?

3.png

With the unstable rail pressure and the reaction of the metering valve control its supply side problem or excessive high pressure leak off be it through injectors or rail pressure control valve.

Is their the possibility of more than one problem?
It is strange it fires the injectors?
Is their a reset for the replacement of the high pressure pump that hasn't been performed?highly unlikely this is the problem
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Re: Volvo V50

Postby RS-4 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:49 pm

Hallo,

a lot of comments and a lot of advice, thank you for everything so far. Today I find and recorded correct signals from another car :

The attachment Fuel metering .psdata is no longer available


The attachment Fuel metering.psdata is no longer available




The attachment Fuel pressure control.psdata is no longer available


The attachment Fuel pressure control.psdata is no longer available




The attachment ckp-cam sensor.psdata is no longer available


The attachment Known good cam -crank.psdata is no longer available




Fuel pressure sensor with disconect metering valve.psdata
Fuel pressure sensor ith disconect meteing valve ( just to see signal)
(591.17 KiB) Downloaded 19 times


Fuel pressure sensor.psdata
Known good
(457.29 KiB) Downloaded 23 times



pressure sensor + injector cil.4.psdata
Fuel pressure sensor (car with problem)
(3.8 MiB) Downloaded 22 times




IMG_20170203_150824005.jpg
I took out a injector to check leaks ... that is ok.



IMG_20170203_154018716.jpg
There is one extra electric pump



I think cam-crank signals and fuel pressure sensor have a lot of noise ...


What to say ... I think I will not sleep tonight ... hehe.
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Re: Volvo V50

Postby RS-4 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:04 am

Fuel metering .psdata
car with problem
(367.91 KiB) Downloaded 21 times


Fuel metering.psdata
Known good
(464.51 KiB) Downloaded 19 times




Fuel pressure control.psdata
Fuel pressure control car with problem
(333.5 KiB) Downloaded 22 times


Fuel pressure control.psdata
Known good fuel pressure control
(478.94 KiB) Downloaded 19 times




ckp-cam sensor.psdata
cam-crank car ith problem
(15.34 MiB) Downloaded 26 times


Known good cam -crank.psdata
I find in Pico base
(253.6 KiB) Downloaded 20 times
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Re: Volvo V50

Postby STC » Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:23 am

Will it start on spray !!! ???
Last edited by STC on Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Volvo V50

Postby dieseljohnny » Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:39 am

Have you checked both actuators on the high pressure pump?

Siemens system?
Fuel flow control valve and high pressure regulator on pump?
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Re: Volvo V50

Postby RS-4 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:58 pm

Hallo,


finally .... I must say that the car came from another service where they replaced a CR pump...

Photos and video explaining all.

Video is too large for this forum that is why I uploaded on youtube.

Thank you all for your help.


IMG_20170208_083838761.jpg
1


IMG_20170208_083848210.jpg
2



https://youtu.be/V0nhcxOTaLo


Regards
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Re: Volvo V50

Postby steevegt » Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:07 pm

STC wrote:Here is a known good from that Engine, I don't have one at cranking, only at Idle speed


Ok, so they are really firing...

STC wrote:...
And that turns my theory on its head :? I think I got too tied up with "They Shouldn't be Firing" and "if they are firing it should start" Hopefully not a completely insane thought process ???
...


Maybe it is only firing the injectors after it gets to the threshold. It looks like it gets to around 1.1 volt in the beginning, before it commands the injectors for the first time.
I guess that after it reaches the threshold, it fires the injectors no matter what the pressure is.
That may explain why they are firing all the time. The reported pressure is very low, and it doesn't start, but that doesn't mean it will not fire the injectors, because it is able to achieve the minimum threshold in the beginning.
Makes sense right?

STC wrote:The car is shouting out at you in the way of a DTC that FRP is low, a fatal fault that will quite likely paralyse it. I am confused as to why you are not chasing that first.


It all points to a low pressure problem, I agree...
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Re: Volvo V50

Postby STC » Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:51 pm

RS 4
Cant remember what that looks like internally now, Is that a broken Camshaft ?
Now we wonder if it needed a new CR HP Pump ??

Well done on finding that. I can see from the pictures that you worked hard to get there.


Steeve

I guess that after it reaches the threshold, it fires the injectors no matter what the pressure is.
That may explain why they are firing all the time. The reported pressure is very low, and it doesn't start, but that doesn't mean it will not fire the injectors, because it is able to achieve the minimum threshold in the beginning.
Makes sense right?


It makes sense because nothing else does. It appears that it looks at Rail Pressure, as soon as the threshold is met it continues to fire injectors regardless of pressure.

Of course that does not explain the P0087 Fault Code. One would guess / assume if it detects low pressure it would stop the injectors ??? Or Not ???

I will be working on a Volvo S40 with the same engine in the next few days. I will manipulate the FRP and Scope the injectors with a view to getting an understanding of its fuelling strategy.

Perhaps Graph Live data for FRP & Injection Quantity / Duration and if it has a PID for No. of DTC's - that would be brilliant to see when it sets.

If you have any tests that you would like me to conduct - Just Shout.


Thanks to RS 4 for bringing this problem to the forum, it is one that, may I say, we all learnt from and has left us thinking further and deeper - A good start to the new year :D :D :D
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Re: Volvo V50

Postby RS-4 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:00 pm

Hei,

the ring for runs cr pump rotates around the camshaft ... I welded at three points in the middle (to fasten the ring to cam) and got the pressure and started the engine, nice. I told the customer that needs to be replaced camshaft.


Cheers
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Re: Volvo V50

Postby STC » Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:07 pm

:D :D :D

A first time fix !!! The best kind.
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