FREELANDER with BMW DDE Version 4.0 System

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FREELANDER with BMW DDE Version 4.0 System

Postby Technician » Sat Oct 08, 2016 7:24 pm

Hi, not sure if anyone has any experience with the above vehicle. Customer complained of power loss and running in limp mode. I scanned for codes and pulled out P1260 - fuel monitoring. I checked fuel pressure through live data and it read 1.65 bar, technical data advised 2.6 [+ -] 0.2 bar. I changed the fuel pump and filter, the fuel pressure increased to around 2.7 bar. The fault code P1260 after clearing came back, the vehicle went back into limp mode. There is a low pressure fuel sensor on the nearside front inner wing, technical data advises that the voltage supply should be 5V at pin 1, it is, and pin 2 should be 0V, it is, and pin 3 should be 4.3V, it isn't, actually it reads as low as 1.7V when the engine is revved up to around 2500 RPM and at idle is about 2.5V. The engine will not rev past 2700 RPM with this sensor connected, but when disconnected the engine will rev to maximum revs. I tried temporarily putting a link wire between pins 1 and 3 and it seemed to work, the code P1260 did not return. I couldn't get the fuel pressure sensor because suppliers were not able to recognise what I was asking for, and when I gave them the part number they kept telling me it is a map sensor, which it is not. I eventually managed to find a second hand sensor which I fitted and the sensor seemed to work for a few days to about a week, I now have the vehicle back because it seems to be over fueling and the EML is back on when the engine warms up, I'm going to check engine codes tomorrow but has anyone got any experience with this setup, does it sound like an ECM type problem?
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Re: FREELANDER with BMW DDE Version 4.0 System

Postby STC » Sat Oct 08, 2016 9:44 pm

Hi Tech

A whole lot of stuff not making sense. Could you post details of the car. Year, Engine Code, VIN, Reg No.
DDE suggests it is a diesel, is it ?

technical data advises that the voltage supply should be 5V at pin 1, it is, and pin 2 should be 0V, it is, and pin 3 should be 4.3V, it isn't, actually it reads as low as 1.7V


What is your data source ??

and when I gave them the part number they kept telling me it is a map sensor, which it is not

let us put that on the back burner for now,

because it seems to be over fueling

Is it a diesel ?? How have you deduced it is over fuelling ??

does it sound like an ECM type problem

Lots to do and test before you get the evidence to confidently condemn any component, least of all the ECM.
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Re: FREELANDER with BMW DDE Version 4.0 System

Postby EAAD » Sun Oct 09, 2016 12:05 am

I am very much not the best qualified person on her mate but very much researching in prep for my courses, creapt up in me, start next week.

Have you tested......... yes you have tested the 5v ref. Didn't read your post properly, sorry
Last edited by EAAD on Sun Oct 09, 2016 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: FREELANDER with BMW DDE Version 4.0 System

Postby Technician » Sun Oct 09, 2016 4:04 pm

STC wrote:Hi Tech

A whole lot of stuff not making sense. Could you post details of the car. Year, Engine Code, VIN, Reg No.
DDE suggests it is a diesel, is it ?

Yes it is a diesel

technical data advises that the voltage supply should be 5V at pin 1, it is, and pin 2 should be 0V, it is, and pin 3 should be 4.3V, it isn't, actually it reads as low as 1.7V


What is your data source ??

Autodata

and when I gave them the part number they kept telling me it is a map sensor, which it is not

let us put that on the back burner for now,

because it seems to be over fueling

Is it a diesel ?? How have you deduced it is over fuelling ??

Blue smoke from the exhaust and a very strong smell

does it sound like an ECM type problem

Lots to do and test before you get the evidence to confidently condemn any component, least of all the ECM.


See next post I entered
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Re: FREELANDER with BMW DDE Version 4.0 System

Postby STC » Sun Oct 09, 2016 5:03 pm

Hello again Tech

Year & Engine code would help us a lot. The ability to look at correct technical data for that car. Can you send me the Vin, by PM if you wish.

Blue smoke from the exhaust and a very strong smell

Can you describe the smell please, blue smoke would be an indicator of burning oil - Rings, Turbo, Stem Seals ......
Pull the turbo / intake / intercooler pipes off and look for oil.
Unlike a petrol you cannot overfuel a diesel, it has an unrestricted supply of air hence more fuel will just raise rpm.

Can you do a quick relative compression test (start disabled) Channel B on Rail Pressure, C on Low pressure Sensor? What do you have for smooth running values / injector correction ... ?

technical data advises that the voltage supply should be 5V at pin 1, it is, and pin 2 should be 0V, it is, and pin 3 should be 4.3V, it isn't, actually it reads as low as 1.7V

Is AD asking for you to measure it unplugged ? but you are back probing with it connected ??
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Re: FREELANDER with BMW DDE Version 4.0 System

Postby Technician » Sun Oct 09, 2016 5:30 pm

STC wrote:Hello again Tech

Year & Engine code would help us a lot. The ability to look at correct technical data for that car. Can you send me the Vin, by PM if you wish.

Blue smoke from the exhaust and a very strong smell

Can you describe the smell please, blue smoke would be an indicator of burning oil - Rings, Turbo, Stem Seals ......
Pull the turbo / intake / intercooler pipes off and look for oil.
Unlike a petrol you cannot overfuel a diesel, it has an unrestricted supply of air hence more fuel will just raise rpm.

Can you do a quick relative compression test (start disabled) Channel B on Rail Pressure, C on Low pressure Sensor? What do you have for smooth running values / injector correction ... ?

technical data advises that the voltage supply should be 5V at pin 1, it is, and pin 2 should be 0V, it is, and pin 3 should be 4.3V, it isn't, actually it reads as low as 1.7V

Is AD asking for you to measure it unplugged ? but you are back probing with it connected ??


I'll try and reply again.

Reg MW54 ZDY, chassis SALLNAAE75A459560, engine code M47R

I have recorded all data (live) from the vehicle using my snap on scope, all stored on shop stream connect. I understand what you are saying above, however the latest code recorded now is P1190, nothing else present, P1190 refers to fuel rail pressure control. When the engine runs normally there is no blue smoke or smell of fumes, it runs well, but when the code is logged the engine runs poor, misfires and the EML with the question mark in the middle illuminates, there are two EML's on this vehicle and the one with the question mark in the middle I am assuming it is OBD II? Fuel rail pressure out of range, along with the live data showing low system fuel pressure now at around 3.47 bar I would of thought is sufficient to cause the blue smoke which only happens when the code is logged.
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Re: FREELANDER with BMW DDE Version 4.0 System

Postby andrewbishop66 » Sun Oct 09, 2016 6:11 pm

Can you confirm that the tank lift pump is supplying the 2.5 bar its supposed too even when the engine is revved any way of using a fuel pressure gauge to confirm
does rail pressure drop off according to auto data injector nozzle opening pressure is 250 bar

Thanks Andrew
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Re: FREELANDER with BMW DDE Version 4.0 System

Postby Technician » Sun Oct 09, 2016 6:40 pm

Thanks Andrew for replying.

This model is on the changeover time, it does not have a lift pump in the tank only a low pressure supply pump on the side of the fuel tank along with the filter. AD advise the low system fuel pressure should be 2.6 bar [+-] 0.2 bar, tested it today and live data shows it at 3.47 bar, however this is via electronics sensors advising the pressure and not actual line pressure with a gauge.

Since this code P1190 has been pulled out today I have not tested the actual rail pressure with a gauge or via the FRP sensor at the moment. AD have no information regards a checking procedure for the code P1190.
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Re: FREELANDER with BMW DDE Version 4.0 System

Postby STC » Sun Oct 09, 2016 7:54 pm

according to auto data injector nozzle opening pressure is 250 bar


Andrew.
I didn't see that on Autodata, I'm under the impression that this is Common Rail ?

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Wouldn't be a bad idea to test LP fuel flow & pressure before you go anywhere near the HP side.
Once that is confirmed, Are you able to monitor Actual & Desired FRP on your scan tool ? and as above monitor LP with a gauge.

only a low pressure supply pump on the side of the fuel tank along with the filter.


On AD, there are 2 variations for that Reg No, the first one distinctly shows 2 fuel pumps - just to add to the confusion.
As above confirm pressure and flow on the LP side first, then move on.

I will look in Topix and report back if I find something.

P1190 Fuel rail pressure plausibility (0x1190). (4)

Possible Causes:
1.Fault on low pressure side.
2.No fuel in tank.
3.Leak in common rail or fuel return system.
4.Leaking injector.
5.High pressure pump.

Usual VM Botox !!!
And only one fuel pump, AD has that wrong. (or I have) The 5 points above make me think Pressure is lower than desired not higher. Please confirm that first !

Once again, LP Confirmed you will have to Graph PIDs for Actual & Desired HP, and Scope FRP & IMV, then MAF, MAP or CKP as an rpm reference from Ignition On, through to crank, start, wot and back. Here I'm now looking to eliminate the safety valve on the end of the rail, which would manifest itself as a large instantaneous drop with minimal change in IMV control. You could connect the return from that valve to a leak off bottle. It should remain empty - not a drop ever !!

Next would be a potentiometer substituting the FRP, promote change to prove ECU reaction at IMV. Then a load resistor on IMV wiring to stop it throwing open circuit DTC's. Use a PWM Emulator in an attempt to control and Steady FRP.

Another thing you could try, unplug the IMV, What FRP do you get in Live Data ?
Last edited by STC on Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: FREELANDER with BMW DDE Version 4.0 System

Postby andrewbishop66 » Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:16 pm

Hi STC

I thought it was common rail as it has a fuel rail pressure sensor but under specs it has nozzle opening pressure 250 bar which i thought was strange
just checked it defiantly states common rail and nozzle opening

Thanks andrew
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