Battery specs etc

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Battery specs etc

Postby EAAD » Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:20 pm

Hello all

Just something annoying me atm, when setting up for the battery test ( easy enough) I sometimes struggle to find battery specs, CCAs, EN number, DIN etc etc. It's not usually easily accessible, ie: on the top (sticker etc) often not there on older battery's.

Sometimes annoyingly I've got to drag the battery out of the car to check mostly inaccessible sides for the info & even then it's not there. Then depending on the car, can lose data radio code and suchlike ? Apart from that it's really annoying for what should be a bread n butter service test.

Data I have doesn't list the CCAs etc only the volts & amp hour rating.

Q. Does anyone have any info on where I can get accurate CCA/EN Type ratings for batteries (vey model specific) to test accurately.. At t the moment I phone the factor suppliers who check and quote from parts software like 'tecdoc' and the like, but even that can vary???

Thanks in anticipation as always.
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Re: Battery specs etc

Postby STC » Sun Aug 28, 2016 8:59 pm

Right now I cannot give you a straight answer to your question.

In the aftermarket we have these challenges daily, twice daily ... We learn to work around the issues.

Can you use the CCA Rating of a battery that you are testing for any diagnostic value ?

If you are doing that test for research purposes I have to drop out. If it is as part of a diagnostic process then Starter Current + B Voltage and crank it for 10, 15 seconds and calculate the RPM along that time. Do that again for belt and braces.

If it is spinning the engine fast enough to satisfy Injection criterea - Box Ticked -Move on!
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Re: Battery specs etc

Postby EAAD » Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:30 pm

As discussed by telephone my very good friend & I trust your guidance implicitly........ It's a basic selling point (very basic) of the picoscope & one of the easiest tests to do & print for a customer. As a diagnostic value, ermmmm not sure, but as a selling point and as a taster to the unwashed public, massive? As it can lead to the true potential of the scope?

It still remains a thorn that I'd like to learn or remove that thorn.....

Can it be calculated?
What's the difference between EN , DIN CCA etc?
Pico, you ask for a value which I assume is relevant or important?

I was going to apologise and move on as George suggested but I'm too dogged and determined until defeated..... Sorry my friend I'm a student of tenatious appetite atm.

Need info/answers please.
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Re: Battery specs etc

Postby EAAD » Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:57 pm

Just to reiterate ...... Asking where to get the data for battery's to be efficient in the very basic of tests from pico? Not the diagnostic value of the test for technicians value (if that makes sense)

Kind regards
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Re: Battery specs etc

Postby victor2k » Mon Aug 29, 2016 5:29 am

Hello,
Here you will find a chart for JIS,DIN,EN.
Regards
Attachments
Battery Analyzer Ratings Chart.pdf
(70.13 KiB) Downloaded 30 times
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Re: Battery specs etc

Postby EAAD » Mon Aug 29, 2016 5:44 am

Thanks to STC = Bosch do a battery info app

&

Thanks to Victor = The attached information
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Re: Battery specs etc

Postby STC » Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:54 pm

Found something for you.

SAE J537 CCA test
Fully charge battery according to SAE J537 and cool to -18°C (0°F) for 24 hours. While at subfreezing temperature, apply a discharge current equal to the specified CCA. (500 CCA battery discharges at 500A.) To pass, the voltage must stay above 7.2V (1.2V/cell) for 30 seconds.

DIN CCA test
Fully charge battery according to SAE J537 and cool to -18°C (0°F) for 24 hours. While at subfreezing temperature, apply a discharge current equal to the specified CCA. (500 CCA battery discharges at 500A.) To pass, the voltage must stay above 9V for 30s and 6V for 150s

IEC CCA test
Fully charge battery according to SAE J537 and cool to -18°C (0°F) for 24 hours. While at subfreezing temperature, apply a discharge current equal to the specified CCA. (500 CCA battery discharges at 500A.) To pass, the voltage must stay above 8.4V for 60 seconds.

Ohms law. A fully charged battery say 12.8volts with a load of 500amps can be achieved by introducing a resistance of 25.6 Mohms at -18c. No walk in the park achieving that. Labaratory Conditions.

Watts Law. That 25.6 Mohm resistor will need to be rated at 330MWatts.
In the absence of that huge resistor and a laboratory capable of achieving and maintaining those tempratures you may as well lay a rusty crowbar across the Positive and Negative terminals on a winters day, take voltage measurements over time and know for sure that you still have not achieved any where the right test conditions for CCA Assignment or Measurement.

That my friend is why I wrote earlier in the thread:
In the aftermarket we have these challenges daily, twice daily ... We learn to work around the issues.

If it is as part of a diagnostic process then Starter Current + B Voltage and crank it for 10, 15 seconds and calculate the RPM along that time. Do that again for belt and braces.



If it is spinning the engine fast enough to satisfy Injection criterea - Box Ticked -Move on!

Massive difference in what it was designed and tested to do and what it is doing RIGHT NOW. Is it contributing to the non start/slow start issue in front of you or not ??

Not wishing to discourage you in your pursuit of excellence, just pointing out the possible/ probable challenges.

"Let sleeping dogs lie" is a saying I recall from yonks ago
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