Audi A 4 2010 Bosch GDI system low Prussure

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Audi A 4 2010 Bosch GDI system low Prussure

Postby tangoman » Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:38 pm

Audi A 4 2010 came in to my workshop today. I was asked to see why the engine check light was coming on ? This car had already had more then $3000 worth of parts put in to it with a new high pressure pump new low pressure pump and a new fuel rail sensor !! wow but still had the same problem ? engine light coming on and low power for the first 5 minutes . So I was asked if I can help them fix it . So I scanned the system with a scan tool and it came up with low pressure system ? But what I did see with the freeze was control system volts was only 11.97 volts ? this might help me fix the car ? ok now don't forget this car has already had lots of parts put into it by another workshop and was still not fixed ? so I set up the scan tool and went for a drive and the fuel pressure was 4000 kpa ( 580 psi ) at idle and went up to about 8000 kpa (1160 psi ) yes these Bosch GDI system have very high pressure ! so anyway on the test drive the system was great . ok now for more test I set up my Picoscope Lab Scope to see why the car was coming up with low pressure codes . So what I did find when you first start the car for the first few seconds we only had 70 psi now this is just the low pressure working so I set up the scope on the fuel rail . What I did see was the rail pressure was sometimes had good pressure and sometime was bad . well this is good because, I have found that there something not right with this system I then set up the scope on the high pressure pump valve and what I did was when I first started the car for only the first few seconds I lost power to the valve now with no power supply, the high pressure will dump the fuel back to the tank and we will only have low 70 psi now I know why this car had low fuel pressure codes . I now need to find why we losing power to the high pressure frequency valve ? the power and the control for the valve comes form a ECU so I looked at the wiring diagrams and seen that is had a few powers supplies going to the ECU and this came from a few relays so I removed the covers under the wipers and found one of the relays for the power to the ECU was bad the $20 relays was the reason why we was losing the high pressure this car did not need more the $3000 spent on it ! I put a new relay and test system again . this car was now fixed thanks to a bit of detective work and the big clue of the frezze frame of low volts and knowing how to set up the picoscope fixed this car
Attachments
Screenshot (85).png
This is where the ECU and the power relays are under the wipers
Screenshot (86).png
Testing the high pressure frequency valve
Screenshot (84).png
scope
Screenshot (59).png
freeze frame have a look at the low control volts this was the big clue
Screenshot (61).png
The codes form the scan tool
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Re: Audi A 4 2010 Bosch GDI system low Prussure

Postby STC » Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:24 pm

Good Catch there Tangoman :D

The Technician, the Scope & the Diagnostic tool working in perfect harmony. What is not to like about that ?

As for the Monkeys that wasted $3000 of the owners hard earned, I cannot fathom how they survive in business. It angers me to know that they are allowed to operate legally without any basic formal training. Yet they could be members of all sorts of schemes - Trusted Traders, Good Garage Scheme ......... with all these banners above the door authenticating them as trustworthy.
The unsuspecting motorist has no clue who he or she is handing their keys to and the harm they can do.

In the UK we have the IMI Professional Register, members have attended courses, passed exams, continuous personal development and reassessed every 3 years to remain on the register.

Problem is that the Register is the worlds best kept secret. I would guess that more than 90% of the motoring public have no clue it exists or what it is.

I am on the register and it does not help me in any way at all. I have never ever had an enquiry from a customer that has found me on there - Not once !!!
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Re: Audi A 4 2010 Bosch GDI system low Prussure

Postby tangoman » Sat Aug 13, 2016 11:10 pm

Most of my training is from Bosch Australia we been using scopes from day one was using the Bosch FSA 560 more the 20 years ago this Scope in Australia was more the $15000 back then makes the picoscope a great scope for not much money ! almost all my work comes from workshops around where I live and lots of the workshops that's gives me the work have great scopes some have Picoscope still in the box ! I always show them how to set up the scope and how to use it but most workshops tell me they don't have the time to use a scope ? A car will come in to there workshop with the ECM light on so they Scan the car and it comes up with say Air flow meter so they put in a new Air flow meter give the car back the light comes back on in a few days then the car comes back. So then they call me I see this everyday

I post a photo of me taken more the 20 years ago using the Bosch FSA 560 scope working on a old Bosch KE Jetronic system
Attachments
DSC04662.JPG
This was photo was taken more the 20 years ago don't phone the number it not around any more
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Re: Audi A 4 2010 Bosch GDI system low Prussure

Postby STC » Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:21 pm

Most of my training is from Bosch Australia we been using scopes from day one was using the Bosch FSA 560


I too went through the Bosch Diagnostic & Master Technician Scheme here (UK) and would never hesitate to recommend it to any technician wishing to increase his knowledge and capabilities.

It is more than just training, add to that meeting like minded people with a similar purpose.

For my Sins !! I don't own or use a Bosch Scope I was a Pico Convert long before my Bosch days & it gets worse, I own and use the Powerprobe 3, 4 & Hook, Have recently acquired the Autel Powerscan. I find them to be great tools, each having a strong point.

Although I have now "Graduated" through the Bosch scheme, we still get invited back for regular Master Tech Update (2 day) seminars. Furthermore, access over the phone to my instructors !! nothing is too much trouble for them, they still support me to this day and regard it as a pleasure, never a hindrance, to do so.

Ask Bosch for some assistance and they are right behind me - Open door! no if's, no buts, no limits, no excuses.

If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is !!?? Not so with the Bosch Training Regime in Uxbridge STC.

Just my experience.
Last edited by STC on Wed Aug 17, 2016 6:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Audi A 4 2010 Bosch GDI system low Prussure

Postby EAAD » Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:49 pm

And I have just enrolled. Committed to each and every module. The next 12mths will be challenging.

A huge thanks to STC for his tireless support, hope I don't let you down.
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Re: Audi A 4 2010 Bosch GDI system low Prussure

Postby STC » Wed Aug 17, 2016 6:58 am

EAAD wrote:And I have just enrolled. Committed to each and every module. The next 12mths will be challenging.


I wouldn't say "Challenging" more "fun and rewarding" the courses are set up and delivered that way with lots of hands on practical tasks in the workshop in every course to complement the classroom stuff.

The , Scope, Wiring Diagram & V Drop testing is featured in every course with a view to drum it into you as second nature.

They invite you to ask questions so make sure you do - don't be shy :D
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Re: Audi A 4 2010 Bosch GDI system low Prussure

Postby STC » Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:40 pm

Coming back to Tangoman and the $3000 dollar Misdiagnosis (UK £1750) This shouldn't be a competition and it isn't, more to highlight that this incompetence is just as rife in the Uk as it is anywhere else.

I walked into a garage this afternoon. (First time customer)

Not sure I want to give the fixes away to the Golden Nugget Hunters, but here goes.

First job was a Land Rover Discovery that wouldn't lock or unlock from the keyfob - Garage is Equipped with "Dealer Level" Autologic for LR - I used my KTS. New RF Receiver, New Body Control Unit and a New Key. I'm guessing £1700 parts and fitting. Vcc / Vdd Missing at Receiver Pin, Perfect as it exited BCM !!!

Next Job a 2010 Astra with Throttle Body Range / Performance Faults. New Throttle body £600 plus fitting I guess - Feedback wire incorrectly crimped in ECU plug - Manufacturers fault as far as I can see. I didn't have a dedicated scantool for this but EOBD did suffice to give me DTC's & Actual Values

Last Job a Nissan Navara with APP, EGR & CKP fault. Garage is equipped with "Dealer Tool" "Nissan Consult" I used my Snap On and Autodata. The shared 5v Ref wire insulation compromised and pulled to ground. You guessed it, new APP, EGR, CKP, Engine ECU & ABS ECU (because the battery went flat and he couldn't clear the St-Ang-S fault ??? I'm guessing £3000 plus with programming etc.

By far the worst I have ever seen in one afternoon under the same roof in the hands of one man. :? Oh, and he wants me back there tomorrow and reckons he can keep me busy - "No S4it Batman" was my first thought !!! :D

I do like Pictures of the Queen was a close Second :oops:
Last edited by STC on Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Audi A 4 2010 Bosch GDI system low Prussure

Postby EAAD » Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:37 pm

Not bad to say you was quiet when I phoned at dinner time mate :)
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Re: Audi A 4 2010 Bosch GDI system low Prussure

Postby STC » Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:47 pm

EAAD wrote:Not bad to say you was quiet when I phoned at dinner time mate :)


Indeed, all that happened between 3 and 7 pm. I spoke to you at 1.08pm for 33 minutes. Give or take a few seconds :D

Back in time to watch the Olympics.

Our Guys and Girls are doing well -
21 Gold
21 Silver
13 Bronze

55 Medals & more to come :D
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Re: Audi A 4 2010 Bosch GDI system low Prussure

Postby tangoman » Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:57 am

Well if there going to be a Competition on how much people pay to get there cars fixed there I have a great one for you guys this poor guy said to me had to sell some of his furniture to pay to get his car fixed ?

Was ask to have a look and a car that was told just can not be fixed ? it was a old 1997 Holden V8 This car had new Auto transmission. yes you did read this wright .A NEW TRANSMISSION !! a new ECU new TPS new 02 s and 6 workshops try to fix it . it would use lots of fuel and the transmission would not change gears very well so I scan the car to see what the ECU was doing .and it came up with TPS codes and 02 codes . so I set up the Pico scope to have a look at the TPS . the TPS was 2 v at idle don't forget this car had new TPS and NEW ECU I check the ground was only 30 mil volts check the 5 volts this was ok too so I got to the ECU to see why we had this 2 v and wow don't know why this car had so many parts the fix this car did not need any parts ? this car was on LPG and some one had removed the system but did not remove the old LPG ECU so tap in to the car ECU was the TPS 02 so I removed the old LPG ECU and car was back to normal this had more the $5000 about $6500 because they put in a new transmission because it did not change gears to well ( TPS 2 V at idle ) $150 that's was the bill from me to fix the car
Attachments
TPS TEST .jpg
This is using the Picoscope one the TPS output
old lpg.jpg
the old LPG System before I removed it
tps ok .jpg
This is the TPS after I removed the old LPF GAS system ECU
TPS 2 V .jpg
The TPS at 2v at idle
scan tool .jpg
This was scan tool codes
Last edited by tangoman on Sun Sep 25, 2016 5:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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