Volvo S40 2005 D4204T P0341

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Re: Volvo S40 2005 D4204T P0341

Postby Fat Freddy » Fri Mar 18, 2016 12:56 am

Here's my reasoning.

I did use a bit of poetic justice in this but I thought I'd compare engine speed just to give a bit of an idea of what the piston is doing.
And to me both engines in relation to the cam seem to reach peak speed at about the same time with regards to the cam signal. It is a bit vague but I can't find a cranking known good. If the actual timing was out by as much as the crank is indicating it wouldn't happen. That's apart from the fact of the bent valves.

Perhaps I stating the obvious but it gives reasoning to consider this 'ring' thing.

Volvo.gif


HTH
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Re: Volvo S40 2005 D4204T P0341

Postby STC » Fri Mar 18, 2016 1:32 am

These are the AD instructions that I have been following
D4204T Cam Timing Illustration.JPG


As you can, this is identical with Cam & Crank pinned by 5 & 6. Additionally the Key on the crank can be seen pointing directly north.
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Re: Volvo S40 2005 D4204T P0341

Postby STC » Fri Mar 18, 2016 2:15 am

I have to agree that the Magnetic Ring must be the Prime Suspect here. I can assure you that it would be difficult to fit it back to front or misalign it on the Crank. It locates on the woodruff key.

Knowing that this engine has been dismantled I did look at these things very critically. I toyed with the idea of the magnets having spun around on the holder but could not see any evidence of that.

Once Pinned, Timed and Tensioned as per instructions this engine will run and sound ok with brake cleaner fuelling it, so I do believe that "Mechanically" the timing is correct.
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Re: Volvo S40 2005 D4204T P0341

Postby volrem » Fri Mar 18, 2016 6:49 am

Fat Freddy wrote:Here's my reasoning.

I did use a bit of poetic justice in this but I thought I'd compare engine speed just to give a bit of an idea of what the piston is doing.
And to me both engines in relation to the cam seem to reach peak speed at about the same time with regards to the cam signal. It is a bit vague but I can't find a cranking known good. If the actual timing was out by as much as the crank is indicating it wouldn't happen. That's apart from the fact of the bent valves.

Perhaps I stating the obvious but it gives reasoning to consider this 'ring' thing.

HTH
FF


Nice. I'll get known good cranking waveform next week.
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Re: Volvo S40 2005 D4204T P0341

Postby volrem » Fri Mar 18, 2016 6:56 am

STC wrote:I have to agree that the Magnetic Ring must be the Prime Suspect here. I can assure you that it would be difficult to fit it back to front or misalign it on the Crank. It locates on the woodruff key.

Knowing that this engine has been dismantled I did look at these things very critically. I toyed with the idea of the magnets having spun around on the holder but could not see any evidence of that.

Once Pinned, Timed and Tensioned as per instructions this engine will run and sound ok with brake cleaner fuelling it, so I do believe that "Mechanically" the timing is correct.



There is a keyway so you can'r rotate it but would it be possible to install it the other way? So that outer side is installed to engine side. I think it would interfere with timing cover and away from sensor but maybe possible.
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Re: Volvo S40 2005 D4204T P0341

Postby Fat Freddy » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:58 pm

There is a keyway so you can'r rotate it


I would of once agreed with that. Until this.

gear.jpg


Couldn't see where it rotated. Couldn't rotate it. But it rotated enough not to fire.

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Re: Volvo S40 2005 D4204T P0341

Postby STC » Sun Mar 20, 2016 1:51 pm

A big thanks to:

Pico for the Waveform Library
Volrem & LucaB for the "Known Good" Captures they Uploaded
Freddy for his Posts.

The history to this car is still not clear but I do know that it has been around the houses and not run for at least 6 months. It has an Engine Rebuild, new Injectors, fuel pump, Cam and Crank Sensors, Cambelt ..........

I was first told that they Steam Cleaned the Engine Bay and it never ran after that. We now know that to be not true.

It sat in a Volvo dealer for some 3 months .......

DSC_0027.JPG


The only sense I can make of this is that some plonker used a screwdriver or similar to remove the Phaser housing which separated it from its boss, (it is just pressed on) I guess that he then very neatly pushed it back on, Leaving no physical evidence of tampering. That innocent mistake has cost the owner months and thousands of pounds.

As seen in the picture it is just a simple procedure of running two 6mm bolts into the threaded holes and it pulls off complete with timing intact.

With the aid of the Pico and Known good waveforms I got it timed up and as if by magic, for the first time I had RPM & Fuel Pressure in Actual Values. I now also had Injectors firing, measured with an amp clamp but no start.

Still suspecting timing issues, knowledge gained by zooming in on the CKP waveform, Adding a Maths channel for crank speed it was clear that injection was not taking place where I guessed it should.

I next used a Pressure transducer in Cylinder 1 and amp clamp on Injector 1 to find that the fuelling event was some degrees adrift.

A few moments to remove, calculate and correctly refit the phased wheel and she fired up on the first turn of the key.

I own and use many scopes, Snap On M2 Handheld, Fluke 123, KTS570, 4 Ch. Verus & the Pico.

I can sincerely state that without the Pico Scope and its Accessories, The Waveform Library and this Forum this car would still be dead and quite likely heading towards being scrapped (185,000 miles).

The car now is a "Keeper" with a new lease of life.
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Re: Volvo S40 2005 D4204T P0341

Postby KimAndersen » Sun Mar 20, 2016 2:23 pm

Congratulation STC

You never gave up and had the right trust in your diagnostic gameplan was the correct way to solve this trouble car.

This Volvo S40 had it all in terms of how to diagnose a car with a timing problem.

There should be enough information to make a good case study on this Volvo S40 !!! :wink:

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Re: Volvo S40 2005 D4204T P0341

Postby volrem » Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:43 pm

Nice work. You corrected sensor ring location but didn't replace it?

Do you have known good waveforms to share. Pressure transducer capture would bevery useful,
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Re: Volvo S40 2005 D4204T P0341

Postby STC » Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:37 pm

KimAndersen wrote:Congratulation STC

You never gave up and had the right trust in your diagnostic gameplan was the correct way to solve this trouble car.
This Volvo S40 had it all in terms of how to diagnose a car with a timing problem.
There should be enough information to make a good case study on this Volvo S40 !!! :wink:

Regards

Kim


Kim

Thank You

There was no option to give up on this, first it was in a garage that I do quite a lot of work for. You are only as good as the last job you do for them. (I don't have Garage Premises, I rely on Local Garages for my work). Most of my work is on a simple contract No Fix, No Money - Good Fix, Good Money

Secondly, Although this car had been messed about with, lots of new parts, a rebuild it was clear that it was good quality work, It was all neat and tidy, no broken plastics, nuts and bolts missing, damaged wiring etc. For those reasons, from the outset I did guess that it would be something simple, something silly. Finding that simple, silly fault would not be an easy journey.

Indeed this would make a good case study, Are there any competition dates coming up anytime soon ?
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