8-Channel Oscilloscope for Automotive?

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8-Channel Oscilloscope for Automotive?

Postby taho » Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:15 pm

In connection with the start of sales of PicoScope 4824, 8-Channel USB 3.0 oscilloscope, can I count on the appearance of 8-Channel oscilloscope for automotive applications? And how soon? I was-would be happy to buy such a device.
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Re: 8-Channel Oscilloscope for Automotive?

Postby volrem » Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:37 pm

Oh yeah. I also miss scope with at least 6 channels.
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Re: 8-Channel Oscilloscope for Automotive?

Postby Steve Smith » Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:39 pm

Hello and thank you for the posts as 8 channels I agree would be very nice.

I guess we have to take a step back here and look at how the automotive scopes have progressed from the 4 CH 4423 scope to the 4 CH 4425 scope (new automotive scope)

Both these scopes have been purpose built for automotive use with high input voltage capability, overload and short circuit protection.

The new 4425 scope has moved on further still from the 4423 with increased input voltage capability (+-200 V), Connect Detect, increased sampling rate, hardware filter, huge sample memory, USB 3.0 and the all-important “Floating inputs”. Accompany all, these features with the PicoScope automotive software incorporating 150+ Guided Tests, pre-loaded probes and the waveform library we have one hell of a diagnostic package

The 4824 I have to admit is a tempting option given the 8 channel facility, but this would be a step backwards in its current form for automotive applications given the sacrifices to be made.

The 4824 will not function with the automotive software and so we lose all the benefits mentioned above. The max input voltage becomes a real concern (+-50 V) when used for automotive diagnosis, so necessitating the need for frequent attenuation on circuits we may not have previously considered. (Not to mention NO short circuit protection)

The 4824 also utilises the “single ended input” design so losing the major benefits and improved measurement techniques of the “floating inputs” introduced with the new automotive scope.

Coming back to the question itself “Can I count on the appearance of 8-Channel oscilloscope for automotive applications? And how soon?”

The answer has to be “Not now”! Speaking with the engineers and colleagues here at Pico it would not be logical to introduce an 8 channel scope for automotive use that did not incorporate the features of an automotive scope. (An 8 channel version of the 4425)

The 8 channel scope would have to offer the same protection, specification and architecture as the new 4425 scope which presents a number of challenges to the engineers.

To incorporate all the required automotive features the device would most certainly increase in size, require and external power source (not USB power) and of course a serious increase in cost.

From another perspective, if the market were large enough to support the design and development of such a scope then Pico would most certainly consider the challenge ahead. (The feedback we have to date does not support the venture at present)

It would be interesting to see if others agree/disagree?

When all is said and done, the 4824 is most certainly a scope to be reckoned with, and so with careful use, by a knowledgeable operative, any circuit can be measured (safety first) in any application.
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Re: 8-Channel Oscilloscope for Automotive?

Postby Valhalla » Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:34 pm

I agree with yourself Steve - 4 channels ought to be enough. The temptation to record "everything" in one shot means that the user is more likely to overlook something basic. Then again, how many times have there been frustrated help feedbacks on this forum where the OP has 4 channels, but has only used 2, where a bit of extra information would have made all the world of difference to the analysis of data? Myself, I'm happy with 4 channels, and make an extra measurement if I need to home-in on something more detailed. If an ignition cascade for a V8 is needed, than that is the appropriate device to use, but not 8 individual channels!
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Re: 8-Channel Oscilloscope for Automotive?

Postby taho » Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:18 am

Valhalla wrote:I agree with yourself Steve - 4 channels ought to be enough. The temptation to record "everything" in one shot means that the user is more likely to overlook something basic. Then again, how many times have there been frustrated help feedbacks on this forum where the OP has 4 channels, but has only used 2, where a bit of extra information would have made all the world of difference to the analysis of data? Myself, I'm happy with 4 channels, and make an extra measurement if I need to home-in on something more detailed. If an ignition cascade for a V8 is needed, than that is the appropriate device to use, but not 8 individual channels!

When you know what to look for, maybe You enough for one channel...When You are learning a new system in the search for diagnostic signs you 4 channels will not be enough considering that one channel will take on the trigger.
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Re: 8-Channel Oscilloscope for Automotive?

Postby FioranoCars » Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:55 pm

Thanks for the comparative of the two scopes, certainly the lack of floating independent channels would be a big issue, as with more channels comes the need to use different voltage bases (fuse based volt drop and Can-Bus decoding while hunting for rouge Parasitics Drains). The 50V verse 200V is a big factor too.

Clearly a compromise might be to daisy chain multiple scopes (I think some of your non-Auto scopes or loggers can do this?), and ideally not matching models (so older scopes become more useful too!) or even adding your non automotive scopes for extra channels (providing a Auto-Scope is connected) ... as the 4824 providing 7/8 channels of fuse volt drop and 4425 doing can-bus or other stuff would be dream like!

OK, we're getting into complex issues, and common earth of the PC USB could be a problem if someone does not understand the full picture!

Anyway, hopefully food for thought about chaining your scopes together??

We did buy a Hantek 1008C (sorry for swearing!) to try some more complex tests (well more than 4 channel tests, complex I'm not so sure!), but have yet to find time to even start thinking let alone trying, so clearly can't be that critical or we would have started ... sorry but was too cheap to not give it a go :-(
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Re: 8-Channel Oscilloscope for Automotive?

Postby Joller79 » Thu Nov 19, 2015 9:05 pm

Well i had a htek 1008 c for a short period, just before i got a bargain of my 4225
Well, the hantek works fine for checking signals but is not fast enough to work all 8 channels at once. But if you only use one or two channels just fine
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Re: 8-Channel Oscilloscope for Automotive?

Postby FioranoCars » Fri Nov 20, 2015 12:36 am

Thanks, good to know, and to be honest it's a bit of a toy in our eyes, don't expect much from it, and with things like parasitic drain via fuses timing is not critical, but for serious stuff we'd always trust Pico :-)

When we get a few minutes to put it through it paces we'll post back, no disrespect, but it's not in the same league ... engineering or community let alone sheer technical innovation and close manufacturer relationships while stil being indie too ... Darn, Pico plug over :-)

Never heard back from them if it was 8 independent channels or all tied to 1 earth base, and never put a volt meter across it to see if they are cross bonded ... Hey ho, Chinese support!

Thanks
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Re: 8-Channel Oscilloscope for Automotive?

Postby Joller79 » Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:46 am

it has, like the older pico, joined eath, i found out by measuring powerloss and another signal on a car´s ignition, it wasn´t happy, when i putted the second prope in, thank god i din´t break anything..
but what to expect from ag 55 pound scope,,,, the good side of it being, it is the same connector bnc?? so i got some more wires now :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

i posted a thread once in a nother forum, with a picture of the signal
http://www.bilgalleri.dk/forum/teknik/1 ... icoscope__
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